Submitting part of a trilogy

[Con Coleman]

Hello all - long-time reader, first-time poster.

I'm working on a trilogy of fantasy novels, essentially one long epic plot over three books. I've written the first novel in its entirety so that it is a polished piece of work, ready to read. However, book two is not written, though it is plotted and has had some work done on it while book three is mapped but has nothing written.

My question is: is it okay to submit the first part of a trilogy to a publisher or agent when the second and third parts are not available to read? Any synopsis I submit could include the entire trilogy plot, but only the first novel is there to be read. It is a complete story, with beginning middle and (cliffhanger) ending, stretching to about 200,000 words, but is still only part one of three. Any advice would be very welcome indeed.

[iansales]

No problem at all. And I'm sure John Jarrold will back me up on this, since I had only completed the first novel of my space opera trilogy when he took me on. A trilogy synopsis is important, however.

[Troo]

Absolutely. You've proven that you've got the three books mapped out and that you have the ability to finish what you start, so you shouldn't have any difficulty there, particularly if it's Fantasy, a Trilogy, and especially verbose.

That's not intended as derisive comment, that's just what the industry is looking for right now, so you're actually in a really strong position.

Do whatever the agency / publisher requests. If they want synopsis of novel and first three chapters, do that, and add in your covering letter that it's the first part of a trilogy and that you can send in the synopsis of the other two if required. Point out that book one is finished and that you're currently writing book two.

[John Jarrold]

Yep, that's all exactly right, from Ian and Troo...

[Con Coleman]

Thank you all. This is very reassuring and I quite take Troo's point about what the industry wants. A literary agent not a million miles away from this board may be getting the first six chapters of my well-crafted, verbose fantasy trilogy fairly soon.

(Following some comments on another thread about first person narratives I got an attack of nerves - my trilogy is written in the first person because it seemed the natural voice for it - but the practical support that posters have given is terrifically welcome.)

[Meadowhawk]

The only caveat I might throw out--and this is in no way intended to discourage, you've done your job and put your heart into it, so let it fly and see--is that 200,000 words is on the long side for a first time author. Now, that may be different in the UK and John and Troo can speak better to what length fiction is selling. [rough estimate]200K words is going to typeset into about a 600 page tome. Especially for small press or independent that is an expensive book to produce. It's going to have to be really special for an editor to spend much time thinking about it.

All that said, brilliant writing overcomes all adversity when it falls into the right hands on the right day when the sun is shining just so! Best of luck, and let us know how you fare.

[the_faery_queen]

i agree that it is long, a lot of publishers i've looked at say they want 120 k and no more
my first book was 270. i cut it into two (turning a triliogy into four book series) sent it to a publisher who then said it was too short and wanted the rest. so now the whole thing (which is 220k after i edited and took out a lot of rubbish) has been accepted
so i think cut it for submission, OR send it as it is and say that you are prepared to cut it if need be.
and in my case book 2 wasn't written (still isn't) or even planned. and i still have no idea where it's really going (i work better that way weirdly) and publishers haven't asked, i think because i sent it to small print places and many small print seem to want to print just one book first, then if it sells they will take the rest. and mine does end in a cliff hanger spot, so i have no idea what will happen to the poor readers who may get book 1 and never the rest!

so um, yeah. *shrug* send it out, tell them you know where the rest are going, and that you're prepared to cut it if need be.

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

i agree that it is long, a lot of publishers i've looked at say they want 120 k and no more

That would be far too short for a fantasy debut in the UK. 130000 to 160000, probably, and all sweeping, wide-screen - no small, beautifully crafted books, thank you. They don't sell!

[Barney]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

That would be far too short for a fantasy debut in the UK. 130000 to 160000, probably, and all sweeping, wide-screen - no small, beautifully crafted books, thank you. They don't sell!

Hello, just had a (rather general) question on the part of your post I put in bold; can't this become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy?
I presume certain types of stories become untouchable for publishers if they used to sell well but now no longer do.
So this hypothetical type of story would disappear from the market (or at least no new stories of its type would appear); so how would it have a chance to be rehabilitated by selling better, or how would it be able to come back into fashion?
I suppose I am saying does publishing follow the market, or do the publishers decide the market?

[John Jarrold]

The book chains and their on-going sales decide the market. If they see a fall-off in sales in a particular area of a genre over two to three years they won't stock it, so commerical publishers will not publish it. It's about bottom line and selling books in Big Numbers to the book chains.

But things do move - horror is coming back, for instance after years in the doldrums, commercially. Fantasy is more varied and sophisticated than it was a decade or more ago. However, nothing changes overnight, and the first person to attempt to rehabilitate an uncommercial area of a genre is usually thought of as 'brave', rather than 'innovative'.

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think what John is saying -- and he'll correct me if I am wrong -- is that either the size of books will very gradually diminish, or else someone who already has a good track record will write that small, perfect book to tremendous sales, the industry will sit up and take notice, and things will begin to change. In neither case is there likely to be a sudden revolution in the size of fantasy novels.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

But things do move - horror is coming back, for instance after years in the doldrums, commercially. Fantasy is more varied and sophisticated than it was a decade or more ago. However, nothing changes overnight, and the first person to attempt to rehabilitate an uncommercial area of a genre is usually thought of as 'brave', rather than 'innovative'.

Does it mean that being 'brave' is also being 'stupid', as those two words are so closely tied together. Should one stop on what they are doing, and write something else, <sarcasm> so what world can only know one type of books </sarcasm>?






On personal note, by my calculations, I'm around three fifth through my fourth version, with 78 000 words on the meter, and I am having big doubts on commercial world. Unfortunately reading this forum, especially yours and Theresa's words scare **** out of me, and want make me to go back in bed and hide under the duvet. But I can't as I have to 'brave' and 'bold' and go there where others hasn't been for ages.

[Con Coleman]

Again, my thanks for the posts.

The length issue is one I hadn't considered in depth, figuring that the bigger the better without giving any thought to it being too big. Last night I took a look at where the story was at around the 165,000 word mark and - lo and behold! - there is a natural cliff-hanger. Everything that follows could fit quite neatly into Book 2 with only a little bit of adjustment.

This also means that I find I've completed a significant chunk of Book 2 without even realising I was doing it, giving me a good launch into getting started on the next act of the plot.

Much appreciated all.

[thaddeus6th]

John, could you clarify what you mean by:
"all sweeping, wide-screen - no small, beautifully crafted books"?

Probably obvious to most here, but I'm in the process of redrafting and I'd be, er, peeved to finish redrafting only to discover I'd created a masterpiece that's entirely unpublishable:P

[John Jarrold]

Look at the market: George R R Martin, Robin Hobb, Naomi Novik. Wide-screen epic, lots of characters and interweaving plotlines. An 80,000-word fantasy about a single plotline, beautifully written or not, is not considered commercial in 2008.

Every author who wants commercial publication must be aware of the commercial market as it stands. Visit your local bookshops regularly and look at the SF and Fantasy shelves, see what newer writers are there in big numbers with more than one book.