Matter: What did you think?

[gully_foyle]

The shoes suggest towards and there are no footprints.

[gully_foyle]

Finally finished.

Not Iain's best by a long shot. Yes the characters were too talky. Yes the conclusion was rushed to. Yes the combat was over too quickly, or rather too much was going on in too short a description. I also felt there were a few borrowed elements in here. Djan Anaplian is too similar to other previous SC agents and had no personality. The Iln seemed to be like an Outside Complex Problem. It was still a good read, but the WOW factor wasn't there.

I don't understand why people don't like The Algebraist. Maybe I love it because it was my first Banks novel and I had no cultural baggage. If Banks did another book like that I would be happy.

[Durandal]

Originally Posted by gully_foyle

I don't understand why people don't like The Algebraist.

I was wondering about that myself. It's actually the only Banks I've read, and I loved it. The Culture novels are incredibly difficult to find in the US, so I started with The Algebraist, as it was easy to obtain. I adored it, and subsequently lugged the entire Culture series back home from a trip to the UK. They're sitting on my "to-read" pile, with a ton of other stuff.

Anyway, I hate to divert this thread from the "Matter" at hand, but I'd love to hear why people dislike The Algebraist. Is it just not as good as the other ones, or is there something more specifically wrong with it?

[Green]

For me, the Algebraist was lacking in the main thing that makes his Culture novels great: AI. I know there was some towards the end, but really they were pretty much absent from the book. In my opinion, Banks' machines are far more interesting than his humans, and The Algebraist suffered as a consequence.

It was too packed with his bright ideas, and he left out most of the plot. Like Matter, it also ended abruptly and the main protagonists (tyl Loesp recently, and the Archimandrite (I think) in The Algebraist) were rendered pretty much pointless and pathetic by vastly superior technology, making me feel like I'd wasted my time with them.

Banks has done the OCP (outside context problem) one too many times with Matter, and while I find them very interesting and fun from a super-science kind of angle, I think this Iln box basically rendered 500 pages of the book a waste of time.

[iansales]

I didn't like the villain in The Algebraist - he was too much of a pantomime villain. And his narrative thread didn't end very well. I also found the Dwellers unconvincing - but then Banks has always been poor at aliens - even the ones in Matter aren't done that well. And finally, the plot shifted into what felt like an entirely different novel towards the end.

However, Banks off form is still better than most other sf writers, so The Algebraist was disappointing chiefly in relation to his other sf novels.

[The Procrastinator]

I am a longtime Banks scifi reader, read them all, and I have to say I really enjoyed The Algebraist. I think I liked it better second time around, but thats one of the reasons I like Banks - he makes good rereaders. Personally I've become a little leery of making up my mind on the like/dislike thing with Iain on the first read, because there's usually something in his books that disturbs me or doesn't sit right, that stays hanging around in my brain for a while like the aftermath of a bad dream. Case in point, the end of Matter. I think I have found with every one of his books that the first read is a mixed bag for me - some parts fit really well and are effortless to love - for instance his drones, I always love his drones - and other parts chafe, or rub, or irritate in some way. So far, on rereading (in a while) I find that somehow a reconciliation is going on - I'm picking up on something that I missed in the thrill of the first read - or i've had time to come to terms with something - or I've had time to get used to something. Like the spelling in Feersum Endjinn, that really jarred me on the first read and I nearly didn't reread it because of it - luckily I did, and loved it.

Now, to the Matter at hand - there were some things that I didn't much like with this book, but somehow I still - enjoyed is too simple a word - interacted with it maybe - on a level of pleasure/pain that I always get with Banks and rarely with any other SF writer. Is it as good as his earlier stuff? For a truly honest, objective response, I am going to have to read it again (in a while).

But this is why I love Banks. He challenges me in some way, every time. He kills someone I didn't want him to (often happens). He doesn't always play fair. Something happens that outrages my sense of natural justice. There might be no drones in the story, and I love drones. The ending is rushed. I didn't want the book to end, but if if had to end, I didn't want it to end there. That shouldn't have happened right then. And so forth and so on.

And here I am loving his books and going back to them repeatedly over the years, seeing different parts of the pleasure/pain every time. I don't know any other SF writer that has this impact on me, I really don't.

[Vetch]

I am just at the end (how sad!) of a Culture Reread Marathon, which I started after I had finished Matter.

I had another reread started some months ago with the Algebraist, but I never finished it. Not because I don't like it -- I think it makes (and deserves) a great reread; but I am so hooked on the Culture, its Minds and drones... I can't help but miss them in the Algebraist. Same with Inversions, even though it's Culture (remotely) and a very good book. But it wasn't part of my recent, er, excess (Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Look to Windward, Excession, Consider Phlebas and now, sniff, there is only State of the Art left.
And then Matter again. ).

Now, Matter.
As in Algebraist there is a lot of describing of environment (please excuse my clumsy English), which I found a bit boring. I also agree with many others -- I wished for Minds and got High Fantasy.
But ... it was gripping. The clueless brothers were frustrating in a good way. Banks has a knack for writing (mostly male) protagonists one (or at least me) doesn't really want to identify with, even though they all have some likeable features, too.

Many have complained the end of Matter was rushed. I am not sure if I feel the same. It is very fast, specially compared to the erst of the book (which is too long with not enough happening, imo), I do wish we'd learned more about the ship that joined in. But reading it made me feel the urge. It was a real rush (of adrenaline).

And there were parts in Matter which really got me. The end; and Oramen's last encounter with - huh, can't describe it without spoilers.


Anyway
There is one thing... compared to eg. Excession (which is the first Banks I ever read and which has been my favourite ever since) Matter and the Algebraist are - not as intense nor dense.