Dance with Dragons release date?

[Overread]

I suspect he knows where the story is going and what certain characters are going to do in his tale, but I reckon that as he has written in detail the story and also got his characters to live in this world that he has had to make some changes along the way to keep from the story feeling like its being pushed along.
Further I bet its a pain to whittle down such a complex story into a book - heck you could write volume after volume on the story - espcially as he is tracking many key characters and their actions - I bet there are some really good bits and lines and viewpoints that he has had to cull for word limits and overall length (and to avoid overdescribing a particular event or scene)

[Hilarious Joke]

I'm torn between not wanting it to end - because I so enjoy reading them - and wanting it to end - because I really want things to be wrapped up nicely.

[Overread]

considering the magnitude of the story I bet we get one of those endings where whislt nearly everything is tidied up and answered there will still be bits left over at the end - the odd missing character and secrets never revealed - certainly enough to keep us guessing for years to come

[Pravuil]

Oh yay.....

[Darkdanita]

When reading the sneak peak and letter at the end of FOC, Martin mentioned that it was half of the story. I read it as DWD was almost complete then.


This thread is disheartening. Many other authors & books... but there are no other briennes of tarth.

[Werthead]

Yeah, GRRM did have some of it done back then, but I get the impression he wasn't too happy with the reception AFFC got, and wanted to take extra care to make sure ADWD kicks ass.

Try not to get too disheartened. The book seems on course for a 2009 release (April at the moment, although nothing is certain until he announces completion).

[Overread]

also its a monster of a task - heck the worst part is if he has a change of heart or gets anything "wrong" in a released book he can't change it (unless its very minor). Its got to be painful if you suddenly find a huge plot hole. Also I feel that like a lot of authors he has trouble keeping the action up and not getting bogged down with the story - hard enough with a single lead character - but far harder with a host of them

[schpat]

I wonder if he is anything like me and just doesn't want the story to end.

[Patchface Killa]

I can say one thing about all this - we are all b*tching about the date being pushed back, and don't get me wrong I am fiending for the next installment as much as the next guy, but we should really be thanking Martin for giving us so much literary fat to chew! This series, even incomplete, is better than any other fantasy series out there, with maybe an exception being The Farseer Trilogy IMO (that's the original Farseer Trilogy, not The Tawny Man. I prefer sad endings where everything doesn't get wrapped up tight as a seventies sitcom).

He probably reads these boards and others. Wouldn't you? It's the smart thing to do trying to hear what your most outpsoken and fanatical readers have to say, and we're talking about a man who is very involved with his fan base. I drew him a pic of Jaime Lannister that wasn't even one of my better ones and e-mailed it to him thinking he would just give a chuckle and a "not too bad" before moving on to play bookworm or some sh**, but that pic was up on his web site within two weeks!

If he's that involved then maybe he's having trouble trying to put those suprisingly eloquent twists in the next few books because everyone on these pages is pre-predicting them. Maybe R+L=J was intended to be true, but now that its become common knowledge he's trying to add an extra twist to it that won't violate the fabric of the series? I don't believe he worked out everything from the beginning - he said himself that he got the idea from a simple scene that popped into his about a wolf killed by a buck and based a large portion of the story of the War of the Roses - which means the ending isn't necessarily set in stone. Maybe he's taking so long because he knows how high our expectations are! I for one would rather he take his time than give fifteen thousand Jordan-esque installments that offer nothing but fodder for our half-*ssed daydreams.

Can I get an amen???

[TK-421]

Amen, brother and praise the Seven!!!

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Patch Face Killa

I can say one thing about all this - we are all bitching about the date being pushed back, and don't get me wrong I am finding for the next installment as much as the next guy, but we should really be thanking Martin for giving us so much literary fat to chew! This series, even incomplete, is better than any other fantasy series out there, with maybe an exception being The Farseer Trilogy IMO (that's the original Farseer Trilogy, not The Tawny Man. I prefer sad endings where everything doesn't get wrapped up tight as a seventies sitcom).

There's a difference between mindless bitching about trivial crap and genuine complaints about something that matters. It's my understanding that the book had already been completed and GRRM was told it was too big. He then decided to split the 4th book into books 4 and 5 and rather than cut the book in half (with a minor modification to "end" the 4th) decided to split it the way he did. He then started a process of revising, re-writing, etc. to the point where the book is late by a year from when the revision was supposed to have been released. I appreciate his work, but I think he has a duty to his fans to release books in a timely fashion. If GRRM didn't have 15 other projects going I might agree with you, but given that this is his opus, his masterpiece, and he SEEMS to be devoting time to other projects. He SAYS he can't write on the road yet he continues to do promo tours that delay ADWD even further. I'd like to see him hole up and finish already

He probably reads these boards and others. Wouldn't you? It's the smart thing to do trying to hear what your most outspoken and fanatical readers have to say, and we're talking about a man who is very involved with his fan base. I drew him a pic of Jaime Lannister that wasn't even one of my better ones and e-mailed it to him thinking he would just give a chuckle and a "not too bad" before moving on to play bookworm or some sh**, but that pic was up on his web site within two weeks!

Of course he knows what people are saying, although I doubt he needs to be inspired by people on a message board to get ideas for the series. I don't, however, think that he is influenced by what anyone says.

If he's that involved then maybe he's having trouble trying to put those surprisingly eloquent twists in the next few books because everyone on these pages is pre-predicting them. Maybe R+L=J was intended to be true, but now that its become common knowledge he's trying to add an extra twist to it that won't violate the fabric of the series? I don't believe he worked out everything from the beginning - he said himself that he got the idea from a simple scene that popped into his about a wolf killed by a buck and based a large portion of the story of the War of the Roses - which means the ending isn't necessarily set in stone. Maybe he's taking so long because he knows how high our expectations are! I for one would rather he take his time than give fifteen thousand Jordan-esque installments that offer nothing but fodder for our half-*assed daydreams.

I hope and believe that he has the entire series 'fleshed out", much in the way that Rowling did with the Harry Potter series. I think part of the problem is that GRRM is a perfectionist and is working in a genre where "perfect" is in the eye of the beholder, and he has trouble seeing it. I have to believe that at this point he's revising things that have been written rather than writing new material. If the latter is the case he's in big trouble, as is everyone who is worried that the series won't be done in his (or their own) lifetime

Can I get an amen???

Maybe next time

[Werthead]

I think some important posts got lost when the forum was down, so to reiterate:

He probably reads these boards and others. Wouldn't you? It's the smart thing to do trying to hear what your most outspoken and fanatical readers have to say, and we're talking about a man who is very involved with his fan base.

GRRM does not read forums at all. Most authors don't. This is because if a writer is known to frequent a forum and if an idea that a random poster comes up with appears in a later book, they can sue the author for nicking their idea, even if the author had planned it all along.

A well-known example of this was when a Babylon 5 fan posted an idea for an episode in which a decent, gentle character finds out he was once mindwiped and in fact used to be a mass-murdering psychopath. B5's writer was planning an episode with the same theme, but after seeing the post he had to delay it for a year whilst he got the fan to sign legal release forms and stuff so he couldn't be accused of nicking it.

So no, he doesn't read the forums.

He also doesn't have 15 other projects on the go. What is quite interesting whenever people mention this is they seem to be unable to actually name them. Instead they name stuff he wrote 27 years ago (Hunter's Run) or stuff that isn't being handled by him at all (the figurines).

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by Werthead

GRRM does not read forums at all. Most authors don't. This is because if a writer is known to frequent a forum and if an idea that a random poster comes up with appears in a later book, they can sue the author for nicking their idea, even if the author had planned it all along.

Originally Posted by Patchface Killa

we should really be thanking Martin for giving us so much literary fat to chew! This series, even incomplete, is better than any other fantasy series out there, with maybe an exception

I accuse PK of nicking my idea... If I haven't posted this before... then I planned on doing so in the near future.

Originally Posted by Werthead

stuff that isn't being handled by him at all (the figurines).

As a representative of the forty year old virgins who paint toy soldiers, we despise calling them figurines... we prefer minatures, minis, or just figs.

[The Imp]

Originally Posted by Werthead

He also doesn't have 15 other projects on the go. What is quite interesting whenever people mention this is they seem to be unable to actually name them. Instead they name stuff he wrote 27 years ago (Hunter's Run) or stuff that isn't being handled by him at all (the figurines).

I agree that it was an exaggeration to pull a number out of the air to make my point. I'd like to seem him lock himself in a room and not come out until ASOIAF is complete, and I'd certainly like to see him curtail promotional trips to places like Spain etc where we know he will get zero writing done. The HBO series, short story compilations, other books, etc. all take time away from the series. i worry about the pace he's writing at vs. he number of years he probably has left (with his mind intact) to complete it. Maybe this is something an older person would worry about more- GRRM and I are almost the same age. I wish us both a long and healthy life, but I worry.

[Wiggum]

Dead.Horse.Beaten.

Would those of you that do complain rather the alternative?

That you didn't have the wait to complain about?

And had never read The Red Wedding, the defense of The Wall, Tyrion's Chain, Jon finding the Direwolves, etc, etc.

Don't get it.