Science fiction agents

[Teatime]

Hi all (again!)

Firstly, to the admins, if you would prefer I keep separate topics in the same thread, I am happy to do so (I have just posted about simultaneous submissions, but this is a completely unrelated topic).

Anyway, I am currently looking at SF agents to send my manuscript off to. However, I have a feeling that my second book - if I get the opportunity to write it - may not be not be science fiction or fantasy. It may be, but there is a good chance it might not be. I suspect I might be someone who likes to explore a variety of genres.

Should this limit my choice of agent when sending off my first novel? For instance, some agents seem to concentrate on sci-fi/fantasy only - would it be advisable to focus on agents who represent a wider range of genres?

My concern is that that would cut down quite considerably the list of agents I could contact. Perhaps its a question of 'crossing that bridge when I come to it'?

Thank you again,

Jon

[Tirellan]

If you read through the 'Personal Questions to John Jarrold' thread you'll find that he has answered this on page 39, answer 583

[Teatime]

Thanks. I guess I will have to hope I will be one of the 'exceptions' he mentions.

[John Jarrold]

Yes, the truth is that the bookselling trade, publishers and agents hate authors who swap genres. Reember that first and foremost commercial publishing is just that: commercial. If the Head Buyer at W H Smiths, who purchases all SF and Fantasy novels stocked by WHS throughout the UK, knows an author is going to jump about, he or she may decide not to stock the book at all, or only take a few. And because publishers know that, they aren't likely to take on an author who wants to jump around.

[Teatime]

Fair enough, and I do accept this. However - and I may be wrong - but my gut feeling is that I may be someone who mixes genres.
Maybe I'm being too harsh on myself - what I've written is undeniably sci fi/fantasy, but I certainly wouldn't call it traditional. I imagine it's possible that my next novel will have elements of sci/fi fantasy - maybe broadly in the same way that Neil Gaiman does, that 'quirky' element - but... well, we'll see.
The positive way of describing it: (hopefully) unique!

[John Jarrold]

Indeed!

[Havlen]

I'm not sure why publishers would care whether or not booksellers like it. That would be easily solved by having a pseudonym.

Now, I can see other reasons why publishers might not like it. A big one being that many imprints specialize in a single genre, and an author working in multiple genres means they'll be working outside of that imprint and possibly with another publisher. Either way, it won't do that specific editor any good, so I can see them preferring it not happen at all.

I can also see publishers not wishing to confuse the reader. But, again, that's one that can be taken care of with a pseudonym.

Also, I have no idea why an author would ever tell an editor/publisher that they wanted to work in multiple genres. At least, before the first book comes out.

I'm the type that might very well want to write in multiple genres. Or, I should say, the ideas I have are sometimes fantasy, sometimes not. As far as I am concerned, if a fantasy is the first picked up by a traditional publisher and they are set in stone that I don't publish outside of the genre, then so be it. I'd be quite happy just working with fantasy in that situation. And if it was a non-fantasy, I'd be just as happy.

I've written fantasy, and learned that I loved it. I've written comedy, and learned that I loved it. I've written one science fiction novel, and learned that I am not a science fiction writer. (I wrote it mainly as a tribute to Heinlen -- who I loved to read.) I've written one -- I guess I have to call it 'literature' -- and I loved writing that one too.

If it just so happened that Ace Books signed me for a comedic fantasy and said, hey, you can't write anything but comedic fantasy while you are with us, I'd ask them where I could sign on the dotted line.

[John Jarrold]

I've mentioned pseudonyms before. No UK publisher would be interested in a new author using a pseudonym, in general. If an author had published half-a-dozen books in one genre that had sold fabulously well and wanted to look in another direction - whilst also continuing to write in the genre that the reading public loved - the situation might change.

Again, it's about publishing authors, not just throwing books in a specific genre at the wall and seeing what sticks.

And every publisher cares deeply what its major customers, the bookselling chains, want. If you don't sell them lotsa books, you go out of business. Commercial publishing is a business, first and foremost.

[Teatime]

I think I've narrowed down what I'm trying to say, a bit.

My current novel is definitely sci fi. What I see myself writing in the future may be books that have elements of sci fi, but in much lesser quantities - I love Kazuo Ishiguro, for instance, and sometimes he has 'weird happenings' in his books (one deals with some kind of telepathy for instance), but it's kind of hard to classify him as sci fi. Alternatively, the film Magnolia - a lot of it's contemporary, but then you have a rain of frogs at the end.
That's how I think I may end up writing (although, I'm not saying I'm as good as Mr Ishiguro!). The odd 'weird thing' that happens, possibly a major plot point, but maybe not enough to put it firmly into the sci fi genre; this as opposed to the 'slightly weird' genre, which I suspect more accurately describes my writing.
My current novel is a bit like that as well - the major plot point is something 'weird' rather than something 'sci fi'. The sci fi element comes from the fact that it's post apocalyptic, really, and even then, the PA is more of a background issue, the 'weird happenings' - weird even in a PA setting - take precedence. Hm. Does that move it out of the sci fi genre?

Does this make any sense? I'm not sure what sort of agents I should concentrate on, based on this - maybe it's because I'm not so good at identifying genres.

Anyway, thanks for indulging my ramblings!

[Havlen]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

And every publisher cares deeply what its major customers, the bookselling chains, want. If you don't sell them lotsa books, you go out of business. Commercial publishing is a business, first and foremost.

Oh, I'm not saying that they don't keep an eye out for what the booksellers want. I am just saying that if, for example, they had two books by me but one of them was "by Havlen Jones" and one was "by John Smith", the bookseller wouldn't know that they were by the same author.

So, unless the bookseller is specifically telling them not to send them pseudonym'd books (which might very well be the case for all I know), I don't see where that would be a problem.

It sounds to me like it is more a case of what you mentioned before that -- publishers wanting to promote authors, not books -- and a pseudonym would obstruct them from promoting the author to the bookseller as well as the reading public. (Assume they promote authors -- not just books -- to booksellers as well as the public.)

Of course, I'm just deducting this through logic having no experience with that side of the industry, but I do know from experience that business is often not logical, so there very well could be something I am missing

Either way, I can see and understand that U.K. publishers are generally against crossing genres regardless of if the author uses a pseudonym. (I'm curious on if it is the same in the States.)

[Havlen]

I'll add the following since it came up in a private message.

In the US, a fantasy book isn't always found in the fantasy section. For example, Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West. It's found under "literature". Much of Vonnegut's stuff had science fiction elements, but its not found under science fiction.

I would assume the same is true in the UK.

(Obviously, there are a lot of difference between Sirens of Titan and your normal Science Fiction novel -- which is why it is found in literature -- but the point being that it does have science fiction elements.)

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Havlen

I
In the US, a fantasy book isn't always found in the fantasy section. For example, Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West. It's found under "literature".

And sometimes a book is shelved in both places. I've actually seen Wicked in different parts of the store at Borders, and at Barnes and Noble.

I suppose it helps a lot if they adapt your book for a movie or a Broadway musical. Or if the book is taught in High School English classes.

[John Jarrold]

Originally Posted by Havlen

Oh, I'm not saying that they don't keep an eye out for what the booksellers want. I am just saying that if, for example, they had two books by me but one of them was "by Havlen Jones" and one was "by John Smith", the bookseller wouldn't know that they were by the same author.

So, unless the bookseller is specifically telling them not to send them pseudonym'd books (which might very well be the case for all I know), I don't see where that would be a problem.

It sounds to me like it is more a case of what you mentioned before that -- publishers wanting to promote authors, not books -- and a pseudonym would obstruct them from promoting the author to the bookseller as well as the reading public. (Assume they promote authors -- not just books -- to booksellers as well as the public.)

Of course, I'm just deducting this through logic having no experience with that side of the industry, but I do know from experience that business is often not logical, so there very well could be something I am missing

Either way, I can see and understand that U.K. publishers are generally against crossing genres regardless of if the author uses a pseudonym. (I'm curious on if it is the same in the States.)

I'll tell you how I would have felt as a publisher. If an author we had spent a great deal of time and money promoting to the book trade and the public came to me and said, right, I don't want to do that any more, I'm going to write something completely different and I want you to publish me under a pseudonym, I'd have told them to take a hike. It would involve starting that entire building work again from scrstch. It's not sensible or, mostly, commercially viable. Publishers have to work within parameters. So do authors.

[Havlen]

Originally Posted by John Jarrold

I'll tell you how I would have felt as a publisher. If an author we had spent a great deal of time and money promoting to the book trade and the public came to me and said, right, I don't want to do that any more, I'm going to write something completely different and I want you to publish me under a pseudonym, I'd have told them to take a hike. It would involve starting that entire building work again from scrstch. It's not sensible or, mostly, commercially viable. Publishers have to work within parameters. So do authors.

Honestly, that only makes sense if the author is going to write in the new genre and *no longer* write in the old genre.

Take me, for example. Let's say you, as a publisher, decide to bring me on as a fantasy writer. I write 3-4 books, and you've promoted me as an author. Now, I come to you and say I would also like to write historical fiction under a pseudonym, but I still plan to write fantasy at about the same rate that I am currently writing fantasy.

Sure, you would have to 'start over' on the historical fiction pseudonym, but that is no different than taking on any new author. So, as long as the historical fiction is good enough to be published on its own (i.e. would be accepted if coming from a new author), that shouldn't be an issue.

Now, if the person were planning on quitting fantasy writing altogether, or were going to slow it down to about half the rate they were previously writing, I can definitely see a publisher being slighted. From all that I know about publishing (which is very little), most authors tend to 'ramp up' in terms of royalties -- meaning, they sell more books as they get more books under their belt -- so marketing the author is something you want to see payback on during the 4th and 5th and 6th books and so on.

So, to me, it comes down to whether or not they are still going to write under the same genre and at (roughly) the same rate (i.e. they aren't going from one book a year to two books a year to account for writing in another genre). And, of course, on whether or not that other book in the new genre is actually good enough to sell.

This is discounting those times when the new genre is outside of the scope of the publisher. Obviously, the editor is never going to like that -- why would he? -- but so long as the rate of the original genre stays the same, I don't see how it would mean that much of an impact to his bottom line.

Note: I'm only speaking within these specific variables. I am sure there are many other things that come into play with this type of decision, some of which I'm probably not aware of at all.

[John Jarrold]

You are talking about the way you'd like things to be. I'm talking about the way they are. Sorry!