Is this right?

[Yeoman]

I found this site a day or so ago, and have been reading about some things.

"Note also that most other connecting words cannot be preceded by a joining comma. For example, the connecting words however, therefore, hence, consequently, nevertheless and thus cannot be used after a joining comma. Hence the following examples are also wrong: " - When I read this, I was quite suprised, because I must have placed a comma in front of every connecting word under the sun at some point!



from - The Joining Comma

Guide to Punctuation

[chrispenycate]

The Oxford comma is not only acceptable – under certain circumstances – it can be extremely useful. And what do they suggest when a subordinate clause, cut off by commas as I, for one, prefer, ends diractly before a conjunction.
While the site's resident punctuation vigilante, I'd be the first to admit all punctuation rules should leave space for flexibility; which doesn't mean one shouldn't learn the rules in the first place, nor that I won't drop on you like a hod of bricks when you break them, just that sometimes a sentence needs more space than a comma for its rhythm to fall right, so a semicolon is inserted instead…
But that rule strikes me as silly.
How about (instead of "should never be used", There is no requirement for a comma when a conjunction fulfills the same requirements"?
Was it an American explanation?

[Lenny]

The site is a University of Sussex site, and the article is from 1997.

So no, English.

[Lith]

I would use a semicolon in front of most of those words, in most instances. It's hard to say "never" or "wrong" with the English language- most grammar laws have exceptions, especially when it comes to dialogue, where people's natural speech differs from the written standard.

[lin robinson]

The problem is glossing over major differences between these words by use of the inexact term "connecting words". Well, actually ALL words connect, no?

"Can" and therefore also "cannot" are actually verbs. The deficient verb "can" (just try conjugating it--there's not even an infinitive) stands in for something like "to be able to" or "to be allowed to". Very different from conjunctions and other connectors.

[Dean F. Wilson]

With most of the words stated above, a semicolon or a completely new sentence would work best, in my opinion. For example:

I made the bed, nevertheless it remained a mess.

This would work better as either:

I made the bed; nevertheless it remained a mess.

or

I made the bed. Nevertheless it remained a mess.

It's not directly connected to the previous line, and yet it retains some connection, so a semicolon could easily work there.

That doesn't apply to them all, however. Another example:

I made the bed. It was still a mess, however.

That conjunction there at the end of the sentence works with a coma because it's directly connected to the sentence, but requires a pause (though I've seen many people omit the coma here entirely).

Now, all of the above said, grammar is a tricky area to work with in terms of writing. You definitely need to know your craft and how grammar plays a vital role in this, but many of the rules can be bent or broken (within reason). It's just alot better if you actually know your breaking the rules, and you know why you're doing so.

An interesting example of something I was always told was: You can't start a sentence with And or But. In terms of writing non-fiction, that might be a good idea, but my writing is littered with beginning Ands and Buts.

-D

[Dean F. Wilson]

Lin, I don't think the source quoted in the original post was suggesting that the verb "can" (or "cannot") was a connecting word/conjunction. As for the term "connecting word" (more correctly: conjunction), that's just a term for a specific type of word in a language's grammar, just like "verb" is a term for the action type words of a language. These words conjoin or connect sentences, and a lot of them require the use of a coma (especially in European languages - have a look at German conjunctions).

I had a look at the site's examples and wanted to offer my own "solutions" to them:

Bangladesh is one of the world's poorest countries, its annual income is only $80 per person.

This is perfect for a semicolon. I'd rewrite as:

Bangladesh is one of the world's poorest countries; its annual income is only $80 per person.

Next:

The British are notoriously bad at learning foreign languages, the Dutch are famously good at it.

I think "while" would go well here, allowing us to retain the coma. See, what the above sentence lacks is a conjunction in the first place, so the conjunction "while" would do wonders. "Whereas" would also work.

The British are notoriously bad at learning foreign languages, while the Dutch are famously good at it.

The British are notoriously bad at learning foreign languages, whereas the Dutch are famously good at it.

Next:

The proposal to introduce rock music to Radio 3 has caused an outcry, angry letters have been pouring into the BBC.

Personally speaking I'd change the second part to make it flow better:

The proposal to introduce rock music to Radio 3 has caused an outcry, resulting in angry letters pouring into the BBC.

To retain the sentence as is, a semicolon could work (though feels to me a little clumsy here), or a completely new sentence. However, I feel that the second part of the quoted sentence is too disjointed in the first place, so I'd just rewrite it.

Borg won his fifth straight Wimbledon title in 1980, the following year he lost in the final to McEnroe.

Why is there a coma here at all? It's a new sentence. A semicolon would work fine, but the easier solution would be to make a new sentence.

Borg won his fifth straight Wimbledon title in 1980. The following year he lost in the final to McEnroe.

If we wanted to keep this as one sentence, another "while" could work:

Borg won his fifth straight Wimbledon title in 1980, while the following year he lost in the final to McEnroe.

Or what about "and then"?

Borg won his fifth straight Wimbledon title in 1980, and then the following year he lost in the final to McEnroe.

See, there are lots of solutions to these issues. Many times we run into this problem from poorly structured sentences in the first place. Try conjunctions that work better with a coma, try a semicolon, a new sentence, or just rewrite the lines entirely.

-D

[lin robinson]

None of which has to do with the matter at hand. "Connecting word" either means "conjuction" or it doesn't. But "cannot" is neither.

As I say, it's not even a complete verb. By the way, it's "comma", not "coma". Although the two could coincide at times.

[Wiglaf]

I believe it is correct; use either a comma fallowed by a conjuction or a semicolon by itself.

[Daniel Hetberg]

Punctuation is lots more flexible than ortography. I tend to insert commas where I need them, because you can formulate completely correct and at the same time completely illegible sentences with too many or too few of them. I'm a german native, and punctuation in english is quite different sometimes... even though in my head, it seems to be work when I put commas in places where I'd put them in german. Got a native english colleague at work now, so I tend to pester him about it

[Dean F. Wilson]

Originally Posted by lin robinson

None of which has to do with the matter at hand. "Connecting word" either means "conjuction" or it doesn't. But "cannot" is neither.

As I say, it's not even a complete verb. By the way, it's "comma", not "coma". Although the two could coincide at times.

I don't understand why you feel the quote in the original post is saying anything about the word "cannot". It talks about conjunctions (like thus, hence, etc.) and merely bolds "cannot" to emphasise their point. I'm still confused why you went on a rant about "can" and "cannot" being a verb in the first place. Who said it was anything other than a verb? Who said it was a conjunction or a "connecting word"?

As for my typos, I think you should be a little bit more mature than that

-D

[lin robinson]

Mature? you go on and call "rant" on my mistake, but it's immature to point out yours for you in a neutral way? (One miscue is a "typo": repeated misuse indicates a problem with spelling. I assume that people are like me and like to find out when they are spelling a word wrong.) Mature. No, thank God.

[Dean F. Wilson]

Firstly, I apologise if my use of the word "rant" was taken as offensive. It wasn't attended as such.

Now, as for the maturity thing, it has nothing to do with my own rant on conjunctions, etc., but with your criticism of a spelling error within my rant (and fair enough, I suppose it is more a spelling error than a typo). If you thought I was trying to belittle you with my original comments asking about where you got the "cannot" as a conjunction idea from, then again, I'm sorry you got that impression. However, why did you feel the need to respond to someone pointing out an error by pointing out one yourself? That's where my maturity comment lies.

Regardless, let's get back on topic. Conjunctions - aren't they wonderful?

-D

[lin robinson]

Try reading your post again and see if you can make any sense out of it.

[Giovanna Clairval]

However, nevertheless, hence, moreover et al. are not conjunctions.

They are conjunctive adverbs.

That is why they don't like showing up after a comma (it's in their nature). They are happy after a full stop or a semicolon (both marking another sentence, an "independent clause").

"I'm going home, however I'd like to go on horseback" illustrates the common mistake called "comma slice" (joining two independent clauses with a comma).

An explanation can be found here:

UC Writing Handouts: Fixing Comma Splices

Oh, and I agree: the use of commas can be controversial, but not in this case (if we believe tens of different sources).