plot query

[Saffy]

hi, i was recently thinking about the "Quest" plot style, like in LOTR, HP or the belgariad for instance. I wanted to know if the quest plot has strict rules where the hero MUST get to the end and never die no matter what, or whether anyone out there has let the hero fail, and would it be as good a story?

just a random thought that mutated into a query :/

[ctg]

The Quest type of plot is very easy plot-style for the novel or a series length of stories. There is no locked down style on how the the Quest comes to the protagonist, but after it had been set, then the protagonist has to do his or hers best to full-fill it.

IF you manage to kill the protagonist (who has the quest) in the middle of the book, then you can do a plot-twist and pass the quest on hero's dying-moment to someone else to complete.

Otherwise, there is no point of using a Quest-type of plot in the story.

[Saffy]

wow, that was fast! thanks for replying

[Ursa major]

I'm not sure whether the story counts as a quest or not, but Moses never made it to the Promised Land.

(Unless they've changed the ending in one of the films based on it.)

[Peter Graham]

hi, i was recently thinking about the "Quest" plot style, like in LOTR, HP or the belgariad for instance. I wanted to know if the quest plot has strict rules where the hero MUST get to the end and never die no matter what, or whether anyone out there has let the hero fail, and would it be as good a story?

Aside from basic rules of grammar and spelling, there are no rules on plot or story and, if there were, my best advice would be to break them at every opportunity. I know that Mills & Boon have very particular rules for their jobbing writers (and nothing wrong with that, judging by the sales), but otherwise you just need to do your own thing. If your book has a quest and the hero fails, so be it. As long as the story resolves and you have taken your reader on a journey which they enjoyed at some level, job done.

Regards,

Peter

[Teresa Edgerton]

I can think of at least one trilogy (SPOILER, highlight to read: Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, by Tad Williams), where the hero and his associates fulfill the quest and then find out that they were duped and shouldn't have done it.

[Lith]

LOTR has a hero that fails his quest. Few others of the plot-quest type dare to have their hero fail, though.

[power to the J]

(A few SW spoilers follow) I know this is a film but I think that Anakin from Episodes I-III failed his goal to become a great Jedi, even though he redeems himself later.

Also, (I guess HP spoilers follow) most people wanted Harry to die--myself included--and he dind't, which means it would be okay to do that to your hero.

Personally, I'd like to read that far and get utterly suprised by a character death. I think it'd probably make me think back on the series/book with warmer feelings. But I'm weird.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Lith

LOTR has a hero that fails his quest.

Do you mean Boromir or Faramir?

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think she means Frodo, since he balked at the last minute and didn't throw the Ring into the fire.

[ctg]

I agree on the failed quests, they are interesting, but the thing is that the writer has to show the consequences of the failure.

Like for example the Anakin story, where the hero tried to become the brightest star on the sky, but got tainted by the power and lured into the dark-side as he tried to help his mother. Then again, Anakin's Quest wasn't as strong as well made as Luke's Quest - of becoming a Jedi (master). Where Anakin Quest ends in the middle of the second episode, and Luke's Quest goes with him all the way to the end.

Just think if the Quest-type of adventure is the best way to tell your story. It can take you a far, but it's not necessarily the most easiest way to tell a story.

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

I think she means Frodo, since he balked at the last minute and didn't throw the Ring into the fire.

I could argue but I don't want to, therefore I agree. There is also another failed quest, with the Ring itself, as it fails to reach its master.

[The Curious Orange]

I've been thinking about the Quest plotline myself, of late.

It's fairly common for the hero to undergo some sort of symbolic death and resurrection during these tales, so I can't see why you couldn't have him die. But I would comment, that if you were "passing the torch" on to the side-kick to finish the task, then what you have is a false protagonist tale, and the side-kick was the real hero all along.

As for failure... well, as the point of these stories is to find the elixir to save the tribe, I guess this needs to be done. When the hero finds out that the elixir doesn't work and he's been manipulated into doing the Dark Lord's work, well, that's the same sort of thing as the false protagonist - the false quest. The quest was merely a plot devise to move along the bigger story. This sort of thing would work as the finale to book 1 of a trilogy, but book 2 better be hot on it's heels.

The alternative is that the hero fails, the elixir is not found, and the tribe are not saved. This sort of story would be better served if you thought of it as a tragedy, and constructed it that way, rather than a failed quest.

[The Pelagic Argosy]

A story where the hero dies or fails might be read as a refreshing departure from a stale plot line. Or your readers might feel cheated, if they were rooting for your hero. So proceed with caution. Your hero can't simply fail. If he's been determined for 300 pages, he can't just suddenly decide to give up. He can't just fall off a cliff. You'd have to find another way to make the ending satisfying. It doesn't have to be a happy ending, mind you. But there would have to be an epiphany or a plot twist. And you'd have to plant a few clues along the way that this twist is coming. The failure of the quest would have to feel inevitable by the end. Readers like to be surprised, but not broadsided.

[Tobytwo]

I think there are no hard and fast rules here. If you're a good enough writer you can get away with anything.

The problem I've found with the quest plot is that you need to establish exactly when the quest ends and how much needs to be done to achieve it. Otherwise you run the risk of a character suddenly announcing "Right, we're here now, well done everybody" and the readers will feel cheated. A quest could technically go on for ever as the author puts in more and more incidental episodes - but readers will get bored.