The Von Bek Family

[j. d. worthington]

Well, we have a thread or two dealing with Elric, and one or two dealing with the Champion in general... yet we don't really have anything dealing with the various other aspects of Moorcock's character/concept.

As this particular family has played a major part in his work for the past 25+ years, I thought it might be interesting to see what (if anything) the people around here think of the various chronicles of the von Bek family, whether it be The War Hound and the World's Pain, or Lunching with the Antichrist, or The Brothel in Rosenstrasse, or The Metatemporal Detective (which I will admit I've not yet read)... or one of the numerous other volumes that deal with this far-flung and rather disparate family....

[Fried Egg]

I haven't read anything about Von Bek. Where should I start?

[GOLLUM]

Well according to Wiki:

A von Bek features in the following novels and short stories:

• The War Hound and the World's Pain (1981)
• "Flux" (1979, short story, retroactively rewritten as a von Bek)
• The Brothel in Rosenstrasse (1982)
• The City in the Autumn Stars (1986)
• The Dragon in the Sword (1987, with Erekosë)
• The Sundered Worlds, aka The Blood-Red Game (1965, retroactively rewritten as a von Bek)
• "The Pleasure Garden of Felipe Sagittarius" (1965, short story, retroactively rewritten as a Von Bek)
• "The Cairene Purse" (2002, short story)
• The Dreamthief's Daughter (2001, with Elric)
• The Skrayling Tree (2003, with Elric)
• The White Wolf's Son (2005, with Elric)

I've read War Hound, The Brothel In Rosenstrasse and the Elric tales and enjoyed them all. BTW if you want to know the origins of Elric check out Victor Gollancz's Masterwork edition of Elric: Stealer Of Souls and Stormbringer.

The first three VonBek stories are The Warhound and the World's Pain, The City in the Autumn Stars and The Pleasure Garden of Felipe Sagittarius, so start with them perhaps. You can get these in an omnibus edition entiled Von Bek from VG.

VG's Masterwork series has many Elric, Corum etc.. novels/stories worth purchasing BUT try out the VG Masterwork Dancers At The End Of Time (omnibus 3 novel collection). It's superior to Elric and one of Moorcock's finest works!

[Nesacat]

I've read the The War Hound and the World's Pain, Lunching with the Antichrist and The Brothel in Rosenstrasse. Have not read the last either.

The War Hound and the World's Pain was the one I read first and it was the book that got me very interested in Moorcock's work. Before that I'd just been dipping into his books here and there.

You could start with that one I think Fried Egg ... or maybe JD thinks one of the others might be a better introduction.

[Fried Egg]

I've read the Blood Red Game...didn't realise it was anything to do with Von Bek.

I've already read most of the Elric novels, two trilogies of Corum, Hawkmoon's Dragonstaff series, Chronicles of Castle Brass, the Dancer's at the end of time, a couple of Erekose novels and a handful of other random novels. I've just never encountered Von Bek.

[GOLLUM]

Wow! didn't realise you had read so much Moorcock already.

Hopefully the information provided is enough to get you started with Von Bek.

[Fried Egg]

Hmmm...actually, I'm beginning to recall that I started reading "The City of Autumn Stars" in the past and didn't enjoy it. To such an extent that I never finished it and got rid of it. I wonder whether I would get on with the others any better...

[j. d. worthington]

Moorcock wasn't quite satisfied with City in the Autumn Stars himself, so he did a revision on that one, I understand, when it came to doing the set of the Champion books. I found it tough going the first time around, but quite liked it the second.

As for The Blood Red Game... it was also retroactively made a von Bek tale. The thing is, the von Beks first begin appearing around the time of the Castle Brass trilogy (Count Brass, The Champion of Garathorm, The Quest for Tanelorn), as I recall, and only later became a major part of his work (ca. 1980, I believe). As his ideas evolved, he did some rewrites on various earlier books that seemed more in line with the concept (at least, that's how it strikes me), often changing them in subtle but important ways, other times altering them quite considerably.

There are actually quite a few more stories featuring the von Bek family, including several of the tales in London Bone, the entirety of Lunching with the Antichrist, Tales from the Texas Woods, and The Metatemporal Detective... not to mention Blood, Fabulous Harbours, The War Amongst the Angels, and Michael Moorcock's Multiverse (the graphic novel)... to name a few.

Yes, I think The War Hound and the World's Pain is a rather good place to start with the von Beks, as it gives you quite a bit of information about them and their place in the Great Game/Eternal War. I'll try to post a further listing of the von Bek tales later today, when I get back from my evening shift; but, essentially, they became a major part of the entire cycle, much as Una Persson or Elric/Jerry Cornelius, in their various aspects... especially the Rose (who is certainly one of my favorite Moorcock characters....)

[Fried Egg]

Yes, I do believe I started reading the original version of "City in the Autumn Stars". Maybe I should give this character another go...

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Fried Egg

Yes, I do believe I started reading the original version of "City in the Autumn Stars". Maybe I should give this character another go...

It's not often Moorcock made revisions to a book or story for such reasons (the other notable one being the final chapters of Gloriana; or, the Unfulfill'd Queen), but I recall reading -- in Death is No Obstacle, iirc -- that he either was going to or had undertaken such a revision with City in the Autumn Stars.

One thing about this one, is that it's a very dense book stylistically. It is also written in a style that is a very good compromise between the 18th-century diction of its protagonist and the 20th-century idiom of its readers, and that can be a bit off-putting to some. And, frankly, there are few "likeable" characters in that novel, and some of the mysticism can seem a bit heavy-handed (at least, as I noted, the first time around... I actually found that it worked quite well on the second reading, where it added to the metaphoric layers of the novel). It is by no means an unflawed book, but I'd say it's worth another try. However, it is quite different in use of language and general approach from the majority of Moorcock's work, and much closer to the textual density and verbal legerdemain of the Pyat books (Byzantium Endures, The Laughter of Carthage, Jerusalem Commands, The Vengeance of Rome), including the use of a protagonist who is both highly intelligent and constantly self-deceiving by highly-convoluted rationalization....

[j. d. worthington]

Well, I didn't get a chance to post the list last night... let's see if I can get it done now.... For the moment, I'm going to concentrate on things that are largely von Bek, rather than anything where the family make an appearance:

The War Hound and the World's Pain
The City in the Autumn Stars
The Brothel in Rosenstrasse
Lunching with the Antichrist: A Family History: 1925-2015 (containing: A Winter Admiral, Wheel of Fortune, Dead Singers, Lunching with the Antichrist, The Cairene Purse, Crossing into Cambodia)
The Dreamthief's Daughter
The Skraeling Tree
White Wolf's Son
Blood
Fabulous Harbours (containing: The Retirement of Jack Karaquazian, The White Pirate, Some Fragments Found in the Effects of Mr. Sam Oakenhurst, The Black Blade's Summoning, Lunching with the Antichrist, The Affair of the Seven Virgins, The Girl Who Killed Sylvia Blade, Crimson Eyes, No Ordinary Christian, The Enigma Windows, Epilogue: The Birds of the Moon)
The War Amongst the Angels
Michael Moorcock's Multiverse

The Rose also appears in The Revenge of the Rose (an Elric novel), and Ulrich von Bek plays a major part in The Dragon in the Sword. There are plenty of other appearances by this family, but these are the major stories dealing with them....