The New Kingsguard

[Lubbock]

So now that Jaime is trying to reform and bring the Kings Guard back to its former glory, who will he choose and why

I been thinking, if Loras can still perform his duties he would be perfect as even Jaime noticed, Loras is himself just younger and still full of his high feelings of himself.

Brienne could get her feet in as she has made a lasting impression with Jaime and have proven her valor and fair nature many times, if only she survives the hanging

The Hound we all know the Hound is the a great choice for KIngsguard, but does Jaime know this ?

So who would you candidates for The New Kingsguard be ?

<Ill proplaby think of more candidates during work

[Charming Serpent]

Do we have to stay specific to Jaime's Kingsguard or can we also bring in Dany's Queensguard? I can go further and ask, assuming Dany wins the Iron Throne, who will be in THAT King/Queensguard too?

Young Connington unless he just decides to be a Lord again.

Brienne

I know this is silly, but maybe Bran if he doesnt become Lord of Winterfell.

Barristan if he stays alive.

Loras, but if he is still able to perform he will have to die in the service of the Lannister/Tyrell reign so I guess not then.

Hmm .... I actually couldn't really guess anymore. Hopefully they will be the "finest swords in the realm" like they used to be. All of my guesses are towards Dany's King/Queensguard btw.

[KiwiBird]

Loras i laready in the kingsguard so thats a mute point.
As for Brienne, i dont see her in any future kings/Queensqguard.

[Boaz]

Jaime may find a way to get rid of Ser Boros. If he does and when he learns of Arys' death, then he'll need two new White Cloaks.

Brienne knowing the truth regarding Tommen, could never serve him. Brienne is a Kingslayer and thus a political embarrasment. But then Dany does things differently from everyone else... she might make a place for Brienne. But the bottom line is that Brienne is a proficient swordsman, err, woman... sorry Ser, uh, my Lady... Like I was saying he's, I mean she's a good swords... She can wield a sword well, but she's not world class, which should be a requirement for the Kingsguard. On her best day she struggled mightily against a malnourished, shackled, and severely out of practice Jaime... granted Jaime styled himself the greatest swordman in the realm (after Barristan Fricking Selmy left town, of course).

Seriously, would anyone in their right mind allow two Kingslayers in the same Kingsguard?

But the main thing Brienne has on her side, assuming she miraculously survives her encounter with Stonehear, is that she is the descendent of Ser Duncan the Tall... history repeats itself.

The Hound is also a political embarrassment to the Lannisters... He'd be hung or sent to the Wall before he'd be allowed back in King's Landing. Besides, Sandor may now have a permanent limp. Allowing Loras and Jaime to serve honorably after being maimed is one thing, but bringing in a gimp is another thing entirely.

Sandor's best shot was showing up in Riverrun with Arya in tow.

If Cersei and Margaery can make plea bargains with the High Septon, I would not be surprised to find two new Kingsguard with deep religious convictions and close ties to the High Septon.

A Kingsguard serves for life. He swears not to hold land, titles, nor wife and children. So the order is usually made up of second or third sons, i.e. those who have nothing to inherit anyway. Loras is the example and Jaime is the exception to this rule. I'd look for more of the same in the future. For example, Horras and Hobber Redwyne both cannot inherit Lord Redwyne's vast political, military, and commercial holdings... if Hobber is the younger, he'd make an excellent Kingsguard... because the Redwynes would be honored by this, they'd increase their power at court, yet the King would have a sort of hostage against Horras' bad behavior.

Lyle Crakehall, the Strongboar, might someday wear a white cloak for Tommen.

Tristayne Martell might serve in Dany's guard someday... if Doran's plans come to fuition. Quentyn would marry Dany and Arianne would get Dorne... and Tristayne would become his brother's and sister-in-law's guard.

Beyond this I don't have any clue.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Boaz skirts around some excellent points....

For the person who eventually holds the throne the Kingsguard is going to be about politics as much as anything else. Westeros has been racked by infighting and as a leader you must not only provide an example of peaceful resolution for your people but a way to keep some of the more itinerant nobles in line.

So without naming specific names heres my criteria

1)Position
As a political appointment I want to make sure my Kingsguard positions (like every other I appoint) ties my realm to me without exposing me to undue influence or making me vulnerable. With that in mind I would never consider taking more than one from a specific family and would be reluctant to take more than one from close allies. So I would target the most influential families of the realm and their loyal bannerman. Of course you would need to target second sons and be careful not to alienate others. So someone like Oberyn, despite his ability would not do. So off the top of my head (and in no particular order) I would target the Royces, Tyrells, Martells, and Lannisters foremost and take one of their sons or principal bannermen.

2)Character
You cannot take just anyone. Lyn Corbray for example would be perfect except someone of his character would tarnish your regime. So you would need upstanding sorts who are more likely to hold to their oath. Jaime is obviously out, someone like Gregor is out....you need men of honor to watch each other in the guarding of your secrets. Garlan Tyrell comes to mind but he is the Tyrell heir so I dont know. BryndenTully also provides some legitimacy here.

3)Ability
The Kingsguard must be able to protect itself obviously. But this is third because they will be training more often than others I should think. Regardless there should be no Boros Blounts in your Kingsguard. It is a sign of weakness in the eyes of your nobles and a weak link in your personal retinue.

4)Legacy
Any ties to previous adminstrations would provide a legitimacy in the eyes of the commoners. Jaime alluded to this tactic when thinking of Lancels marriage to the former Lady Darry. Possible candidates include Barristan Selmy, Brienne, Balon Swann and a nod to Ser Preston Greenfield the current wielder of Dawn (From a post by Werthead which Im taking as fact)

Anyhow thats my criteria, now I must comb the realms to find the right fit....

[Charming Serpent]

I thought of Garlan too, but he is the Second son, not the heir. that would be Willas. A moot point anyhow due to the fact that Garlan is now Lord of Brightwater Keep.

Whoa ... whoa..... wait a second. Preston Greeenfield is the wielder of Dawn? The sword that only the Daynes of House Dayne have used for thousands of years??? Please link me Wert's post.

Wait..... wasn't Ser Preston killed in the riot in KL??

[viZion]

No kidding. What's this about Ser Preston wielding Dawn? Where did Dawn end up after Ser Preston was killed? Stolen by the mob? What?

[Aegon the Unworthy]

I screwed the proverbial pooch on the name...its Ser Wallace Chester of the Greensfield Chesters who married Alia Dayne and has Dawn....posted by Winters Sorrow...I apologize for citing sources wrong.

Who gets Dawn?

However the link to westeros.org he posted no longer has the information. So I trust WS to be accurate but cant verify....

[Aegon the Unworthy]

The information is under House Dayne....not House Chester...go figure

Blood of Dragons: Houses - House Dayne of Starfall

[Charming Serpent]

Lol. Figures, I just posted about finding no info under the other one.

Yup, says it right there. Wallace Chester wielder of the Greatsword Dawn. Hm, I wonder why or how though?

Ok, found out the reasons , kinda. Look at Who gets dawn post below this one. I posted it there.

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Boaz skirts around some excellent points....

HA! HA! HA!

Thanks, I needed a belly laugh today... it's my New Year's resolution. Wait, or was my resolution to get a backhanded compliment every day? Either way it works.

Yes, you also had my head twirling with the Preston has Dawn line.

One nitpick, you said, and I quote, Barristan Selmy. You of all people need to get his name correct. I's Barristan Fricking Selmy. BFS!

Garlan has inherited the Florent lands, so he's out from the winning regime's seven.

Second sons of influential families with great ability and honor don't seem to be easy to remember. I can think of a few that meet two or three of Aegon's criteria. Hobber Redwyne (younger, I assume, son of the Lord of the Arbor, though Horas might be the younger, I dunno), Tristayne Martell (younger son of the Prince of Dorne), Gerold Dayne (Darkstar will never serve the Lannisters), Donnel Waynwood (Lady Waynwood's younger son), Mychel Redfort (Mya Stone's lover), Lyle Crakehall (the Strongboar), Rollam Westerling (Robb's squire), Lewys Piper (Jaime's squire), Garrett Paege (Jaime's squire), and Josmyn Peckledon (another of Jaime's squires, he slew two knights at King's Landing) are the ones I can think of and look up.

The Freys might put forth a number of candidates including Elmar Frey (Roose's squire), Red Walder Frey (Emmon's youngest son), Olyvar Frey (Robb's squire), and Donnel Haigh (younger son of Frey bannermen).

Other intresting potentials... Gendry Storm and "Strong" Sam Stone (a knight of the Vale).

It seems to me that certain Kings, Hands, Queens, Lord Commanders of the Kingsguard or whomever selects the men to wear white all would elevate one of Egg's criteria above the others. There may be some awesome fighters that will never even be considered because of their low birth and others who are picked for their political connections.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Sorry Boaz I actually didnt intend to slight ya. But now that I have I declare myself clever.....and yer right...its BFS....calling him BS is an insult. For those that dont know Boaz is referencing a rather empassioned defense of Barristan I made some time ago....I have a strong dislike of inside jokes.


So not only did I misquote an old post, I misquoted a post referencing incorrect information? Can we just call me Aegon the Incorrect and move on? Thanks Serpent for doing the research.....that post has been referenced before and no one bothered to correct it.

Obviously my criteria are my criteria. Circumstances will defeat the perfect plan and compromises must be made....I dont know enough about the myriad of possibilties to discuss specifics intelligently. And obviously Dany is going to make some different choices than Jon, and the Lannisters will differ from the Tyrells...

[KiwiBird]

Originally Posted by Boaz

HA! HA! HA!

Thanks, I needed a belly laugh today... it's my New Year's resolution. Wait, or was my resolution to get a backhanded compliment every day? Either way it works.

Yes, you also had my head twirling with the Preston has Dawn line.

One nitpick, you said, and I quote, Barristan Selmy. You of all people need to get his name correct. I's Barristan Fricking Selmy. BFS!

Garlan has inherited the Florent lands, so he's out from the winning regime's seven.

Second sons of influential families with great ability and honor don't seem to be easy to remember. I can think of a few that meet two or three of Aegon's criteria. Hobber Redwyne (younger, I assume, son of the Lord of the Arbor, though Horas might be the younger, I dunno), Tristayne Martell (younger son of the Prince of Dorne), Gerold Dayne (Darkstar will never serve the Lannisters), Donnel Waynwood (Lady Waynwood's younger son), Mychel Redfort (Mya Stone's lover), Lyle Crakehall (the Strongboar), Rollam Westerling (Robb's squire), Lewys Piper (Jaime's squire), Garrett Paege (Jaime's squire), and Josmyn Peckledon (another of Jaime's squires, he slew two knights at King's Landing) are the ones I can think of and look up.

The Freys might put forth a number of candidates including Elmar Frey (Roose's squire), Red Walder Frey (Emmon's youngest son), Olyvar Frey (Robb's squire), and Donnel Haigh (younger son of Frey bannermen).

Other intresting potentials... Gendry Storm and "Strong" Sam Stone (a knight of the Vale).

It seems to me that certain Kings, Hands, Queens, Lord Commanders of the Kingsguard or whomever selects the men to wear white all would elevate one of Egg's criteria above the others. There may be some awesome fighters that will never even be considered because of their low birth and others who are picked for their political connections.

Arent a bunch of them already mentioned. Bunch probably being an exageration. Mya stone lover is though

[Boaz]

Okay, Kiwi. I admit that I was really just trying to cover all the bases while appearing to be informed.

[KiwiBird]

Mentioned was supposed to be married, but it seems it works as well