Gunpowder

[Ivexus]

The culture in Midkemia is all historic, if gunpowder was introduced, wouldn't it answer many problems and bring their culture forward with new technology. Guns are even mentioned in Into a Dark realm. Why dosen't he advance their culture?

[Kulgan]

Ivexus, that's a very good question and one that I've pondered myself. Gunpowder is mentioned, as is Quegan fire oil and the distillation of coal oil (kerosene) that was made at Armengar, which is explosive.

I've always felt that the kingdom is hovering right on the edge of that next step, the development of cannons, etc. The only thing I can think is that Ray doesn't want to go there because that kind of cultural advancement would tend to negate a lot of the things that are done with magick now. If anyone could create a powerful explosion using technology, it wouldn't be nearly a significant as Pug, Macros, etc, being able to do it with a wave of the hand and an incantation.

When you open that Pandora's box, things will inevitably snowball, leading to skirmishes between the Kingdom and Kesh being fought with machine guns and tanks - not quite what the fant reader is looking for.

However, I agree that it sems illogical for Midkemia not to have developed that next step in the evolution of warfare.

[Fake Vencar]

Many ideas come to my mind about it:

1). It would spoil the whole sense of Midkemia and the universe around it. Magic wouldn't really mean anything anymore, as you sort of said Kulgan, and the combat would change so much it wouldn't be identifiable.

2). I don't think gunpowder weapons are Ray's area of discipline to be honest. They are a completely different branch of weaponry and would not be good at all. Yes they were sort of mentioned, but it wasn't really a gunpowder weapon.

3). Who would develop it? We have seen very little of knowledgeable and intelligent people in Midkemia and Kelewan and all of them are researching magic. There is no one to do the research or has even thought about it.

4). Finally, we do not know if they have the resources on Midkemia. Gunpowder is, what; sulphur, charcoal and potassium nitrate. They may have the sulphur and the charcoal, but what about the potassium nitrate? We all know raw potassium reacts violently with water and that historically, nitre-beds were prepared by mixing manure with either mortar or wood ashes, common earth and organic materials such as straw. Can they do this? I think not

[nj1]

I personnaly think the introduction of gunpowder would spoil the plots and battles in his his books. If an army had cannons, surely a magican could nulify them with out too much trouble and if so whats the point of them?
The only instance I can think of in the ways of advancement was Pug's copy of the Tsurrani Orbs. A magical device.

Surely there are other ways of advancing a culture with weapons first being created?
Steam can generate power so how about someone inventing steam powered transport? There's probably coal to be found in the Dwarven mines and there's pleanty of woods in Midkemia.

[Kulgan]

nj, U make a very good point. Just because our species seems to advance by creating more devestating engines of war before anything else, doesn't mean that other cultures on other planets are as warlike. (Tho I will admit that Midkemia seems to be constantly engaged in struggle.)

Remember back when Pug designed that metal hood for the fireplace in his room when he was apprenticed to Kulgan? A lot of people seemed impessed by the idea of using a metal hood and pipes to diffuse smoke, and I figured the idea was going to catch on and soon people would be using stoves of some kind, but the idea was never developed. If Ray had let that idea progress, they'd now be using something like the Franklin stove (tho on Midkemia they'd probably be calling it the 'Kulgan stove') lol

The idea of inventing steam power isn't out of the question at all. Kelewan might have a problem due to their lack of metals to build boilers, but you'd thing someone in the kingdom would have come up with a prototype 'horseless carriage' already.

Come to think of it, Kesh is a much older and more established society and you'd think that some progressive ideas would originate in Kesh. Interesting questions to ponder...

[Fake Vencar]

Aye, but Kesh might not have the resources. We know Kelewan has hardly any metal on the surface and Kesh seems to be just savanna and desert. As for the horseless carriage...they just have not the ideas available. There are no industries concerning the making of the artificial resources required so it will never come about

[nj1]

Originally Posted by Fake Vencar

Aye, but Kesh might not have the resources. We know Kelewan has hardly any metal on the surface and Kesh seems to be just savanna and desert. As for the horseless carriage...they just have not the ideas available. There are no industries concerning the making of the artificial resources required so it will never come about

Isnt there a large forest near the Overn deep? Mind you most forests in midkemia are inhabited by some type of Elf. Dont think they would take to kindly to mass deforestation to fuel an industry, Probably end up starting another war

[Fake Vencar]

There possibly is a large forest but on the whole, all i see in Kesh is savanna and desert. If they do cut down the forest, then...there must be more forests as how do they get fuel in the first place? Camel dung?

[Ivexus]

Thanks for your replies and views on the matter

[Kulgan]

Actually camel dung, as well as that contributed by horses, cows, etc, does make good fuel once dried. But I doubt they have enough to make a major industry from it. Pioneers used it for campfires when crossing the prairies, and that's about it.

There might be some kind of major oil resources available in Kesh, but no one seems to be looking for them. The Kwegans have fire oil and there are probably similar resources within the Keshian empire, but no one is thinking about it because the culture hasn't advanced far enough.

[Fake Vencar]

According to the Kingdom Nobles, only Queg and themselves know how to make it, since Arutha and his merry band learnt from Armengar. And since the ancient Greeks knew how to make it, I would think it is a big step from this to gunpowder