Women representation in sci-fi films... Any opinions please!

[Troo]

I'd class all those damsel-in-distress women as outright wimpy. The ones whose very clear role is simply to fall over, twist their ankle, scream, be menaced by the bad guy / monster, and be rescued by the hero (whom she undoubtedly falls in love with because he's all big and strong).

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Troo

That's just it though. What I was trying to say (a little too subtly perhaps) is that you write the theory that you want to write, and you pick your evidence to support it. So long as your research supports your idea (or, where it detracts from it, you can show it to be something against the "norm"), you're fine. If you want to propose that the representation of women in SF has come along in leaps and bounds since the fifties, there are plenty of examples for you to use. If you want to propose that women are still quintessentially represented as inferior to men, there are plenty of examples for you to use who are the same characters that you could use to "prove" the former theory.

Let's look at Sam Carter. You could argue that she's a strong female lead who is inspiring to women SF fans, or you could argue that the character is just a man being played by a female actress - that for women to become "strong female leads", they have to become men in every way but genitalia.

It all depends on what paper you want to write

So what a women cant be as smart as Sam with being a man in played by a women.....
Cause i dont see how being a clever scientist who saves them with her mind has become a man in everyway but her genitalia..

Its not like she is a female Rambo or something...

I say all that IS complete BS.

Have you seen BSG the new show? I geuss Roslin is a man too cause you know she is in a man role aka the President......

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

So what a women cant be as smart as Sam with being a man in played by a women.....
Cause i dont see how being a clever scientist who saves them with her mind has become a man in everyway but her genitalia..

Its not like she is a female Rambo or something...

I say all that IS complete BS.

Have you seen BSG the new show? I geuss Roslin is a man too cause you know she is in a man role aka the President......

Sorry, perhaps try actually reading my post rather than just picking out the bits you want to and going off on one after your misunderstanding. It could save you further embarrassement.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Troo

Sorry, perhaps try actually reading my post rather than just picking out the bits you want to and going off on one after your misunderstanding. It could save you further embarrassement.

Hehe i see that now. I didnt actually read your first post but only the second.


But why write the Sam part of the post like you wanted to write her like that.

Thats the confusing part.

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

Hehe i see that now. I didnt actually read your first post but only the second.


But why write the Sam part of the post like you wanted to write her like that.

Thats the confusing part.

Because it was an example of the skill that a writer can apply to any subject to get the facts to fit whatever point they are choosing to make.

Writers. They're evil. Don't trust 'em

[Lith]

I'd class all those damsel-in-distress women as outright wimpy. The ones whose very clear role is simply to fall over, twist their ankle, scream, be menaced by the bad guy / monster, and be rescued by the hero (whom she undoubtedly falls in love with because he's all big and strong).

Humor me for a bit. Name a few since Star Wars. (If they don't at least have names, they don't count.)

Because unfortunately nothing comes to mind when I actually try to get specific about such women.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Troo

Because it was an example of the skill that a writer can apply to any subject to get the facts to fit whatever point they are choosing to make.

Writers. They're evil. Don't trust 'em

I trust only the great writers





Have you seen Stargate Atlantis ?

Its funny cause recent eps i saw a female ship captain written almost exactly like your example of how Sam was written. She is really a man in a hot female body (of course a female captian of ship must be hot in a SF movie/tv)....

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Lith

Humor me for a bit. Name a few since Star Wars. (If they don't at least have names, they don't count.)

Because unfortunately nothing comes to mind when I actually try to get specific about such women.

Bollocks, there goes "woman 1"!

How about that dappy bint in the first Indiana Jones film? She was bloody hopeless.

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

Have you seen Stargate Atlantis ?

Its funny cause recent eps i saw a female ship captain written almost exactly like your example of how Sam was written. She is really a man in a hot female body (of course a female captian of ship must be hot in a SF movie/tv)....

No, no, my example of how one could interpret that Sam is written

I haven't seen recent episodes of Atlantis. I wait until the DVDs come out and buy them, and I'm running behind due to Christmas spending getting in the way.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Troo

No, no, my example of how one could interpret that Sam is written

I understood that


For a sec i thought you knew one of the writers of SGA and he/she told how they wrote the female character i was talking about

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

I understood that


For a sec i thought you knew one of the writers of SGA and he/she told how they wrote the female character i was talking about

Alas no *sniffles*. I could probably get in touch, but I'd ask for a full-blown interview...

Now there's an idea.

[Steve Jordan]

Here's what's funny about all this to me: The idea that you-all might be comparing the quality of women characters in SF against what are purely stereotypical "characteristics" generally attributed to women. Hence, Sam Carter and Kara Thrace are judged, not as women, but as "stand-ins for men," because they don't run around weeping or have builds like Playboy bunnies. You might as well be judging Boomer negatively because she doesn't act "Asian."

Hint: Don't consider the question in terms of what physical or emotional stereotypes are handy. Think of the roles. Think of the depth of character inherent in female roles, and how that has changed. Think of it in terms of the "meaty" roles that formerly would only have been given to male actors, and are now available to females. Picture the female characters that are strong enough to carry their own movie or TV episode, all alone, if they had to. Those are the real characters... accessories can't handle being front-and-center for an entire movie.

As examples, I'd suggest pretty much every sci-fi romp pre-1980 as the "old" female role, essentially an accessory in the picture. Many of them helped, some hindered, and some just looked pretty, but overall, they did nothing to advance the story, and had no serious participation in the story beyond being in the frame and helping the leads. (Even Lt. Uhura never rose above the "accessory" level in the Star Trek TV episodes. Today, many female roles are still essentially "accessory" roles, including Susan Ivanova of Babylon 5, Dee on BSG, even Aeryn Sun of Farscape.)

As examples of the new, "real people" female roles, it's an embarassingly short list. I'd suggest Ripley in Alien (the first, as opposed to Aliens), Kara Thrace and Boomer of BSG, Capt. Janeway of ST:Voyager, and Major Motoko of Ghost In The Shell (if female robots in Anime count). Notice that only two of those I listed are from movies... the movie list is even shorter than the TV list.

[Troo]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Here's what's funny about all this to me: The idea that you-all might be comparing the quality of women characters in SF against what are purely stereotypical "characteristics" generally attributed to women. Hence, Sam Carter and Kara Thrace are judged, not as women, but as "stand-ins for men," because they don't run around weeping or have builds like Playboy bunnies. You might as well be judging Boomer negatively because she doesn't act "Asian."

Similarly I am amused that you clearly haven't bothered reading the thread. Doing so would have made you realise that judging these characters is exactly what we haven't been doing - simply clarifying how such characters could be judged, depending on the intention of the paper's author.

I lie. I'm not amused at all, merely disenchanted.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Troo

Similarly I am amused that you clearly haven't bothered reading the thread. Doing so would have made you realise that judging these characters is exactly what we haven't been doing - simply clarifying how such characters could be judged, depending on the intention of the paper's author.

Actually, I have read the thread. My point is that most of the characters mentioned herein DO suggest peoples' attitudes, even if they are not explicitly giving judgement... and that includes your comments and tone, as well. Your point, I might add, is well-taken... people see what they want to see.

I was simply trying to focus the thread a bit by factoring out the characters (and there are many, female and male) that are essentially ciphers to the story, leaving the serious female character roles to consider. The clearest statement I could make would be to point out that there are far more SF female roles now that have transcended the cipher level and become full-fledged character roles. Today, the trick is first to separate the ciphers from the roles... then examine the roles, keeping the ciphers out of the way. Because there's no point comparing BSG's Boomer to "Woman 1," is there?

[Connavar]

Jordan i can agree with BSG female characters. I liked how real people like they are.

Boomer any version of her is great. Khara isnt one dimensional as you might think either.

My fav in BSG is the many versions of Number 6.

Also Boomer isnt asian They are from alien planets far far away from earth.



Of course all of this im talking about the new BSG who is the best SF drama by far to grace tv or movies. They deal with SF elements and social problems. Just a like great SF book would.