Fitz and Molly

[the_faery_queen]

molly was a childhood crush. the boy couldn't grow up, or change, he was a cataylst, and his feelings for molly were just childhood crush feelings that couldn't change. i don't think it was real real love. im not saying he didn't love her, im debating the, it was great soul comanding, life sacrifcing love. and i never said it was just plumbing with molly. at least, that isn't what i meant, if that's how you took it. i think he did love her, but i think he couldn't see beyond plumbing to love the fool that way. that's what i meant. he can't see beyond plumbing to have realised that the fool was better for him. just as he couldn't see beyond duty to realise kettricken was also better for him. he gets far too hung up on things, and doesn't let go. and i think that's partly why he wanted molly. he was hung up on her and couldn't let go. he doesn't change. he is the catylst. he can't get beyond what makes him who he is to change, so he doesn't. he clings to everything that he had, reguardless of whether it's good for him. so he may have real feelings for molly, but WOULD he if he could change? I thinkj not. if he could get beyond this being stuck aspect, i think he wouldn't love her anymore, he would move on. but he can't, so he was stuck on her. that doesn't make it real true love. that makes it almost like a brainwashed true love. he loves her because he can't not love her. i guess you could say it was like someone stuck the idea in his head with skill, and now he's stuck with it, the same way galen was forced to worship chivalary. the feelings are real, on teh surface, and perhaps deeper, but it doesn't change the fact that, if, perhaps, he could change, he probably wouldn't have those feelings.

and im sorry, i still don't think the love was that deep. it was need, for molly. burrich was dead. she was alone. she went back to fitz because he was there and she never wanted to be on her own. it was why she went with him in the first place, first guy that came laong. the reason why she looked for him in the castle. it's need that drives molly. yes, she may have feelings for him, btu it's not all about love, it's about her need. and i have to say, that if she had loved him, she wouldn't have married burrich. i disagree that it was neccessary. he was looking after her already. she certainly wouldn't have had so many kids with him if she married him just to save nettle from being a bastard. she married him because she loved him. that she loved fitz as well doesn't change anything. she also loved burrich. she didn't love fitz as much as he loved her because fitz NEVER loved anyone else, never made a life with anyone else. and in my opinion, he loved her because he can't grow up enough to get beyond it. to me it's not the big deep love you seem to think it is, kauldron, it's a love of neccessity and childhood feelings.

and molly may not want the wit, but one of her children has it. her husband had it (burrich) he was also a drinker, something she hated. yet she overlooked that. she put ridiculous demands on fitz that makes me think she saw him in a childish way, making him be the sort of man she wanted, not the man that he was. and i think it's only after 15 years and 5 kids that she grew up enough to see beyond that to who he actually was. but still not enough to really let him be who he was. i still believe love in unconditional. he loved her without conditions. he didn't care that she wasn't noble, or had anything of her own. but she had nothing BUT conditions for him. she was unrealistic and unfair, selfish, really. and his love was more pure and giving, but that's cos i think he was hungup on the idea of her and couldn't get beyond it to the reality because the daft man can't really get beyond ANYTHING

[kauldron26]

Different perspectives, different interpretations. everything is relative. agree to disagree. its all good.

[the_faery_queen]

yep that's the good thing about a good, well written book people can discuss it. when a book is poo, no one cares about the motives

[Overread]

Yep I agree to that ^^

[Shingetsu]

I wanted to be written into the book to kill Burrich when Fitz wathced Molly and him hug for the first time. 16 years Molly and Fitz could have been together, but had to be damn tragedy. It's not that I hate Burrich, just pissed me off. Though just as bad as Fitz anyways, he should have went back anyways. Molly would have taken him back. Of course Burrich would be shamed and would probably go off with a bottle or something. I'm just glad Hobb didn't wish to end the book with still torturing him. He married Molly, has a decent relationship with Nettle and with the rest of Molly's kids too. Lives at Withywoods and spends his time mainly with Molly.

[jackokent]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

yep that's the good thing about a good, well written book people can discuss it. when a book is poo, no one cares about the motives

Well said.

However I still think Fitz could have done better. I have no sympathy for Molly. She just couldn't lighten up. I know she had a hard life but Fitz's life wasn't exactly a bed of roses and he seemed to have to spend thier entire relationship in the dog house (or wolf house maybe)

[Shingetsu]

I don't Molly is all that bad. Seems their relationship was usually fine. Just bad things would happen, or misunderstandings, or words not meant said. Molly and Fitz are perfect for eachother, their problems or no different then any others. Well, for a book that is. They have each had hard lives. I don't think either could have done better, they were meant for eachother. No other women in his life were good for him. Jinna was nice, except she thought he just went wolf-crazy and killed three people and a horse. I'm sure they could have probably worked it out, not that I wanted them to. He liked Celerity for her spirit, she might have been good, but still not Molly. And lets not get started on Starling. She seemed to finally be better when she got pregnant, but I don't think her issues vanished, plus they had to stop being friends because of it anyways.

[kauldron26]

yea it seems those of us that love Molly and Fitz relationship are outnumbered here lol. Like i said, i think they are my favorite couple in all of fiction. Rivaled only by jack and Aliena from Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett, and Holly and Jim from ColdFire by Dean Koontz.

Fitz and Molly's story to me is the very embodiment of True love and Tragedy.

[Shingetsu]

I havn't read enough series to compare yet. Though I do think Richard and Kahlan from The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind have a good relationship aswell. Theirs is tragedy and love too.

[kauldron26]

Dont mean to go off topic, i love Richard and Kahlan as well im a big fan of Goodkind since 10th grade. seems like such a long time ago. The series wrapped up this year and it was such a great conclusion. The Sword of truth series is very close to me. i'll defend it till the day i die. its not for everyone though since its fundamentally philosophical. It actually got me into reading.

[Shingetsu]

It was the second series I ever read after Feist. I liked it. Atleast Goodkind says he isn't done writing about the world and characters he made.

[Tickle]

I really didn't like the young Molly. She seemed selfish and unyielding to me. I can see her moving on when she thought Fitz was dead, but it should have taken her a lot longer than it did.

I am glad that they ended up together, only because that is what Fitz wanted. The Fool also knew that is what Fitz wanted because that is what he saw and why he was willing to go thru with his plan, even though he knew he was going to die. I do think that Fool loved Fitz more than Molly ever would or could. But Fool was right when he said Molly wouldn't accept him in their lives. I think she would have been very jealous of Fool (even though, he and Fitz wouldn't have had a sexual relationship) because it would become very clear that they shared a bond stronger than she would ever have with Fitz, despite being his wife.

Fitz got what he wanted. Molly and a relationship with his daughter. He also got to payback Burrich (for raising and loving him) by taking care of his kids (whom he could consider his, ?foster? brothers).

Happy? Content? Who cares! I'm just happy he got what he wanted.

[Aien]

Ok, I'd just like to clear up something I;ve spotted throughout this thread...
"The Catalyst comes, not to be a hero, but to enable others to be heroes.". This line says nothing that the Catalyst cannot be a hero, it just says that isn't his purpose.
The faery queen said that the Catalyst changes things, but dosen't change himself. That is essentially wrong, nowhere is it specified that the Catalyst cannot change, just that he comes to change events. I think Fitz was capable of changing, yet the fact that he didn't points back to the deep roots of love in his live. Fitz could be attracted to what she represents to him as well, say, the connection to his childhood and previous live...
Musing...

[the_faery_queen]

it was fitz's fault he didn't have molly! burrich did a noble thing. he stepped in and looked after a pregnant woman AND her child. he didn't have to. fitz could have come back. he didn't. it's HIS fault.
and a catylst in science, can't change. that's what i mean. he, as a catylst, cannot change himself. he can only change events around him because in science a catylst doesn't change. and fitz doesn't, because he can't, as said catylst.

urgh. i dunno, i really disliked richard and kahalan. their romance seemed completely forced to me. oh look, she's pretty, now i LOOOOVE her. there was no real development at all.

[dreir]

Regardless of perspective (I'm mostly with kauldron on this one), the fact that you guys can discuss the complex motives and emotions of fictional characters in such great detail (and with real feeling, too!) is a tribute to the immense talent of Robin Hobb. Reminds me of my Literature classes. Maybe she should be introduced as a compulsory read?