Is Jon Lord Commader & King of the North

[KiwiBird]

1) Robb is a rebel lord, so if the Iron Throne pulls through, most of his decrees will be nullified

2) While a king may proclaim that he is his heir, special arrangements still needed to be made, cause of the fact that when you join the NW, you leave behind your former ties.

3) Jon has proclaimed his vows, and he aint gonna (truly) break them. Especially after the whole Stannis bit. Wether Jon is proclaimed king in the north by Robb seems to me irrelevant regardless at the moment.

[Scurveydog77]

You make a good point, but why would Martin put it in the book? He offers it in two different scenes. It could be that Rob changed his mind and made someone else his heir, they never mention Jon's name when they put their seals to the document.

Also, keep in mind that the Lord Commander of the Night Watch already has lands and castles. Castle Black, The Gift, The new Gift, Queens Castle, etc.

And not all those who signed the document are dead or captured. Rob sent some of them to search out Howland Reed. They never went to the Red Wedding. One of them was the Lady Mormont. She'll know the name of Rob's heir.

[johnnylump]

Has it been definitively ruled out that Robb didn't knock up his wife?

[Scurveydog77]

Yes, Her mother confirmed to Jaime that she was not with child. She hinted that it was "taken care of", per the instructions of Jaime's father, Lord Tywin

I remember a scene in ASoS where Queen Jeyne told Catelyn that her mother was giving her something to drink to help her conceive. My guess is it was really moon tea.

[Boaz]

Scurvey, Lumpy, and CS, I welcome you all to the Chronicles Network. We love your questions and ideas. I'm gonna throw out some of facts and ideas that have been tossed around here before... let me remind you that you do not have to like these ideas or accept previous hypotheses as facts. By all means, we would all love for anyone to come up with better hypotheses or find clues that no one else has found.

Brynden Tully, aka The Blackfish, was Robb's leading battle commander and his castellan at Riverrun. Robb did not have a Hand, but Brynden did a lot of a Hand's work even if he never had the title. If anyone knows what Robb decided regarding the inheritance of the North and if anyone has the determination to see Robb's will done, it is The Blackfish. In addition to Jon and Sansa, Robb's blood relatives included Brynden and Edmure. Don't forget that Jaime failed to capture Brynden... he's on the loose.

Regarding Jeyne Stark nee Westerling... In ASOS, Catelyn noted that Jeyne's hips looked ample for birthing. In AFFC, Jaime noted that Jeyne seemed slim of waist. Did Jeyne hit a growth spurt? Or did her mother try to fool Jaime with a stand in?

Edit: My apologies, I had to run out for a few minutes.

Mayhaps Lady Sybelle is still playing both sides... I'd certainly like to think Robb has an heir of his body.

[Scurveydog77]

Rob told Catelyn that he wanted to make Jon his heir after they had left RiverRun but before they got to the twins. Sir Blackfish was not with them. Rob could have told him before they left, but we don't know that.

Also, in AFoC Jaime offered Sir Blackfish the wall if he would yield RiverRun and mentioned that Jon was the new Lord Commander. The Blackfish said that Catelyn never trusted Jon. He could have known that Rob had made Jon his heir and didn't want Jaime to know, or he just didn't know.

In regards to Jeyne, her family was one of the first to bend the knee after Rob was killed and were promised good marriages for their children, including Jeyne. Do you remember the line 'good marriages with first sons and heirs? This was agreed upon by Jeyne's mother and Lord Tywin. I think this agreement was made before the Red Wedding. Which is interesting by itself.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Mayhaps Lady Sybelle is still playing both sides... I'd certainly like to think Robb has an heir of his body.

She certainly is and yes, there is an heir. There has to be...

[viZion]

Originally Posted by KiwiBird

Okay, you have a point, but i think mine still holds. When it comes to lands, you can i think only be lord of one thing. For instance Robert could no longer be lord of Storm's End since he now got the Kings land under his control.

As for offices and the political power that comes with them is offcourse a different story.

Littlefinger holds the titles of Lord of Harrenhal and Lord of whatever that little village is called that's his actual home at the same time. When he marries Lysa I think he considers himself Lord of the Eyrie as well but that's debateable. Anyway, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules in this world.

[KiwiBird]

nice Vizion, i had overlooked the illustrious Littlefinger.

[Boaz]

Petry Baelish is Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Trident. The latter means that the Lannisters have demoted the Tullys and promoted Littlefinger as overlord of the Riverlands. Since Littlefinger has no interest in getting himself either killed or involved in the political and martial quagmire of the Riverlands, he's contenting himself with being Lord Protector of the Vale, i.e. he's the ruling Regent until Robert comes of age... which Littlefinger will never allow to happen. Also, since Lysa acknowledged Tommen's legitimacy the throne was obligated to return the title of Warden of the West to the Arryns... ergo Petyr Baelish is also Warden of the West.