Difference between Tolkien and the 'modern Fantasy' authors?

[Megari]

Yeah from marketing perspective if u look at the cultural trends - we're more time-poor, confronted with wider choices of books (I'm a fan of fantasies but I also do read a wide range of other genres), activities and so on, so you see this reflected in books where there's instant gratification, repetition of tried n tested parameters of fantasies (heroes/villian(s), a strong feminine character, some kid who is a nobody growing up to be someone to be reckoned with, a mythical world created to be easily imaginable, etc etc).

If there's an author whom can break away from this well-travelled path in writing of fantasies, and still get marketed, then more power to him... does anyone know of any?

Something just occured to me - there must be some marketing ppl from major SFF publishing houses who peruse websites like this one to see what's the trend, and what we are after and so on. Also potential authors-to-be. I could be talking to one or two here, how cool would that be!

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

You're welcome, Pyan. (If you've not done so, you might try reading Edmund Burke's essay "On Taste":

Preface. Burke, Edmund. 1909-14. On Taste. The Harvard Classics

It's one of the most thoughtful essays on the subject I've ever come across....

Connavar: Will keep that in mind, and see if I can't find it; thanks for the suggestion....

I made a thread about it, so you if want info about the story read there. Too many place just like the back of my book spoil away the story.

Its my turn to recoomend something you havent read. When i read it i thought you would like it.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Megari

If there's an author whom can break away from this well-travelled path in writing of fantasies, and still get marketed, then more power to him... does anyone know of any?

Depends on what you mean by fantasy. I balk at the current (post-Tolkien) concept of fantasy, as that is only one very narrow aspect of an extremely broad field. And, if you are to include the "dark fantasy" sort of thing, then someone like Thomas Ligotti would certainly fit the bill. While not everything he writes is of the first quality, a huge amount is nonetheless very impressive, and he's certainly an original voice -- and has such a following that his books frequently sell out before they are even released (or very shortly thereafter). The catch is that he very seldom, if ever, goes through major publishers, which makes it less likely that the books will be kept in print....

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Megari

Something just occured to me - there must be some marketing ppl from major SFF publishing houses who peruse websites like this one to see what's the trend, and what we are after and so on. Also potential authors-to-be. I could be talking to one or two here, how cool would that be!

No, the marketing people never do that. They only look at sales figures. As I said above, websites like this represent only a tiny (though vocal) part of the market. Also, a lot of the people here rarely buy new books. They buy them second-hand. Marketing people are only interested in the people who buy the books the first time, because that's where the publisher gets paid. Finally, readers here may talk about the newest authors and how stale and boring the old authors are, but in a surprising number of cases they still go out and buy the latest Robert Jordan or Terry Goodkind (or whoever it is they're complaining about), and complain about the new book, too.

Marketing people also don't make a habit of looking for potential new authors. Publishers don't need to go looking for new authors, because the authors come to them.

On the other hand, yes, we do have a lot of talented aspiring writers on this site. If they keep writing and submitting their work (most potential new authors give up after a few rejections) there may well be some future authors here.

And to return to the topic: Publishers would gladly publish more books with the same depth and written with the same passion that Tolkien put into his work, if that's what enough readers were willing to buy.

But what somebody up above said about instant gratification is very, very true. We have a generation of readers coming up that are used to be entertained by video games and action movies that move at a furious rate. They are accustomed to entertainment that requires no emotional or intellectual engagement on their part. Some of these will inevitably give Tolkien because of his name and reputation. Only those who were looking (perhaps consciously, perhaps unconsciously) for something richer and more nuanced than the kind of reading they are accustomed to will find Tolkien a satisfying read.

[dreir]

So it all comes back to marketing, doesn't it (as usual)? And it becomes a vicious cycle. Authors want to get published. Publishers want books that sell. Authors become very aware of these 'requirements' or 'rules' that make a book publishable, and they obediently fall in line. Tolkien didn't have to (or didn't choose to) deal with all of these publisher/market expectations. He wrote as he wanted to write. He took 12 years to finish LOTR (I know there was a pesky little war in between, but still). And it took 6 more years for it to be published because he kept arguing with Allen & Unwin / Collins. Who knows, maybe there is a brave, passionate soul somewhere out there who will try to break the current mould one day. Or maybe two passionate souls. One author and one publisher..

- Dreir -

[Teresa Edgerton]

No, it doesn't all come down to marketing. As I said before, it's editors who pitch the books in the first place. But the people in marketing do what they are hired to do; they concentrate on what sells, not on what a handful of very vocal readers say they want.

And as far as brave and passionate souls who will try to break the mold: there are authors of that description trying to do just that all of the time. Occasionally, a publisher will take a chance on one of them, just to see if they might, in doing so, discover the next big thing. But it takes a certain amount of bravery on the part of the general book-buying public and/or a very fortunate turn of events, for this to succeed. In other words, there has to be courage all around, and these days that's a hard thing to summon up just when you want it. Sometimes it does happen. Then readers (and therefore the marketing departments at major publishers) want more of the same thing.

[The Procrastinator]

And Tolkien wasn't the "next big thing" at the time, either. It took a while for the snowball to roll downhill. Its a different world these days...

I wonder how many of the books being written now will be true classics in 50 years?

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by The Procrastinator

Its a different world these days...

It is indeed. Book aren't given nearly as much time to make an impression; if they don't sell well in the first few months, they're gone before word of their excellence can spread.

I'm tempted to say that a book like LOTR with no sex and comparatively little violence could never make it with fantasy readers now ... but then there is Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell to prove that's wrong.

[Dee_hee]

The internet and ebook publishing has also opened up the market.

It's easier for a publisher to take a chance when they are not involved with high costs for conventional book marketing and printing.

The market for ebooks seems to be much higher in North America than the UK

[The Procrastinator]

If they can make a cheap ebook reader that doesn't give one eyestrain, ebooks should really take off. Though personally I love the smell of books...