SPOILERS: Theory on Jon

[hodor]

Others and I have come up with a theory on Jon. You see we don't believe he is actually the bastard son of Eddard. We believe he is Lyanna's son.. a by Rhaegar... Dany's half brother. And if you read and think about it carefully there are alot of things that point this direction. Hence comes the question: Knowing this do you think Jon will stay on The Wall or maybe when Dany comes .... ? As the rest of the family has done in the past.

Just food for thought.

[Rane Longfox]

Hmm, J=R+L... this sounds somewhat familiar...

The GRRM forum has circled this argument around so many times it isn't funny anymore The conclusion they've come to? Who knows. But they deride anyone who suggests it, so I expect not. http://b15.ezboard.com/basoiaf

[erickad71]

Do you post much over there cal? I love going over there just to see what crazy thing someone comes up with next!

I must admit that I had thought that Jon was not Eddard's son...but I didn't connect it to Rhaegar. Of course there was a lot of stuff that I missed the first time I read these books.

[hodor]

i dont go that road caladanbrood... The title of the series is A Song of Ice and Fire... now if Jon was both Stark and Targeryen then that would make ICE AND FIRE plus we know Ned made a promise to his sister on her death bed and we could assume that was it... to not tell anyone. It has also been odd that Ned is soooo straight in other areas but just once fails himself... NO I dont buy it. We know Lyanna was raped by Rhaegar and we also know that the Lannister's would probably have had the child killed had they known it was Rhaegars. There are others who hold to the idea that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love and thats the way it went but I don't go that way.

[erickad71]

But we don't know that Lyanna was raped. All we have are Ned's memories...and all he has mentioned is the promise he made to her on her death bed. He never reveals any anger towards Rhaegar, which he surely would have if he thought his sister was raped by him.

[hodor]

Yes, but Rhaegar is dead. I would follow with the belief Lyanna was raped merely because of the was Ned's father was killed... and if this was so why would Lyanna submit to him.

[erickad71]

Now I'm gonna have to go look up my books again so I can find the part I need to argue my point.

In one of the books we find out why/how his father was killed...and I'm pretty sure it was because Rhaegar's father was insane! But I will be back later with the exact part I'm thinking of.

[hodor]

Originally Posted by erickad71

Now I'm gonna have to go look up my books again so I can find the part I need to argue my point.

In one of the books we find out why/how his father was killed...and I'm pretty sure it was because Rhaegar's father was insane! But I will be back later with the exact part I'm thinking of.

He has been said to be insane.. yes.. but they were family. The same thing based on everything we have read in this series. But I know where you are going Ericka... the king was insane and boiled the man alive in his armor with his son trying to save him and that in itself killed him. Nonetheless... Rhaegar was his son.

[LadyFel]

The theory I have is that Rhaegar and Lyanna tried to elope, but someone made it appear as though she was abducted and raped...

If you think about it, nowhere in the books so far is there any mention of any serious misdeeds by Rhaegar - everyone who was more than passing acquainted with him seems to be of the opinion that he was a good man, would have made a just king...Even Eddard seems to have a good opinion of him, and he had nothing to do with Ned's father's death, he wasn't even there, I think...Rhaegar just doesn't strike me like the type of person who would find pleasure in forcing himself on someone who didn't want him, and even less as being capable of risking civil war in the kingdom just to satisfy his personal lust...

The only one who derides him is Robert Baratheon (ok, and those around him), the question is WHY...I assume someone told him a 'decorated' version of what happened, knowing he wouldn'r stop to question the truth of the matter because it gave him an excuse to start a rebellion...Eddard keeps remembering his promise whenever Robert rails about the Targaryens, it has to be connected...

There's also the scene where Dany goes through that weird tower and opens some of the doors...something about 'one more' (I think she sees a couple standing over a crib and one of them says something about there being 'another'...why would she see that, all the other scenes had some sort of significance for her...)

And I have to agree with Hodor - for Ned to have strayed even once, knowing his rigid character? I doubt it very much...there's also the fact h+that he refuses to mention Jon's mother's name to anyone - I mean, if he was capable of siring a bastard child and openly having him brought up in his home, surely he would at least have told Catelyn 'look, her name was..., it happened, I'm sorry...'

[I, Brian]

Yep, I think we covered this earlier.

Jon as the child of both - a loving couple. The clues are all there, just not stated. And it does indeed connect the title - of the north (ice) and of the dragons (fire) - Jon as the bridge connecting both.

[hodor]

I believe there IS a man that knows, and he is the Lord of the Swampland.

[erickad71]

Swampland?! Why, whatever do you mean?

[hodor]

It has been far to long since I read the series and I forget his name. He was Ned's friend and it is said he never leaves his castle. He sent his son and daughter to rob and now they are with bran. I believe that he knows the truth and maybe them too. Just another crackpot theory.

[erickad71]

I know, I was just being silly...hence the winking smiley.

His name is Howland Reed and I can't wait til he finally shows up!

[hodor]

Yeah it will be interesting to learn more about him.