Queen Margaery and the moon tea ???

[MIDNIGHT]

Okay I know this topic has been beaten to death, however I could not find a thread to know whether or not this has been discussed. Here goes... in AFFCs Cersai demands Jaime to remain inside of the bed chamber that Tommen and Margaery are to share on the night of their wedding. Lady Olenna decides they should be together as man and wife (or at least warm each others bed). Jaime argues with Cersai that there can be no danger of consummation as Tommen is much to young. She replies that Ossifer Plumm was much to dead but that didn't stop him from fathering a child. Now we never do find out whether or not Jaime remained in that bedchamber, however we do know that the Lady Olenna is a bit of a troublemaker. Could she and Margaery be spreading tales of requiring moon tea to lead Cersai to demand the reason for requiring it, only to annouce that Margaery is pregnant with Tommens child( whether or not its his is trivial as they DID spend their wedding night together). I know...why would she require moon tea to rid herself of the Kings baby....I'm not saying she ever used it, its just a ploy to get Cersai out in the open. Lady Olenna is far to sharp by far, I'm just wondering why she insisted that Tommen and Margaery spend that 1 night together.

[Boaz]

Midnight, that's some interesting thinking there...

I think it's strange that Olenna and Marg would use moon tea to force the issue because moon tea would immediately call Marg's fidelity into question.

Mayhaps Marg and Olenna are trying to get Marg pregnant and claim the child as Tommen's. If Marg had a son, then the Tyrells could kill Tommen and move themselves into power equal to, if not greater than, the Lannisters. Remember, the Lannisters are trying the exact same ploy with Edmure Tully and mayhaps Robb Stark.

I don't know what the moon tea is for. Mayhaps Marg tried to employ Olenna's plan, but stupidly slept with a Kettleblack or some other black haired man. Any son of Marg must have brown hair or lighter to be considered as Tommen's... unless the Tyrells try and claim a recessive Baratheon gene.

Mayhaps Olenna's insistence upon the one night was to get it into Tommen's head that spending the night with Margaery is a good thing. If he makes a habit of it, then Marg will be ready when Tom's balls drop.

Mayhaps the whole thing is to make the Tyrells seem trustworthy and to lull the Lannisters into complacence.

[viZion]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Any son of Marg must have brown hair or lighter to be considered as Tommen's... unless the Tyrells try and claim a recessive Baratheon gene.

Now that would be funny. What do the Lannisters do knowing that there's no Baratheon blood in Tommen but unable to reveal that publicly? I would love to see that.

[MIDNIGHT]

I've considered a dark haired child as well, since that would but Cersai in such a pickle, however I just can't see Margaery screwing around like that . She seems to take after Olenna tooooo much. This is extremely far fetched, but I'm gonna say it anyways. What about Renly and a true Baratheon ? Renly (although he swung from the opposite side of the plate) was capable of producing an heir. Time line wouldn't make any sense though. WHY OH WHY would George throw in a 2 page discussion on whether or not Margaery and Tommen shared a bed ????????? Then add mystery as to Margaery using moon tea ? Cersai's motives for reveiling Margaery's drug use are purely to destroy her marriage to Tommen, yet she didn't start the rumor of moon tea. So who did and why ? Or perhaps Cersai is correct about Marg and Loras being a little like her and Jaime. Yet it makes no sense.....the Tyrells have there own Maester in Kings Landing why risk using Maester Pycelle unless you want it known ? Does Pycelle have any other known conections other than the Lannisters ?

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Ive always been under the impression that Margy was schtooping Loras....

Cleary from Jaimes aunt's description of Renlys wedding night he was at least aroused by Margy....and we know Renly is of an "open-mind" when it comes to the bedchamber. So if Renly is of ambiguous sexual orientation then why cant Loras be as well....and we know according to Kettleblacks account the only one she is ever alone with is Loras.

That is one twisted love triangle....

I dont remember the thread originator...but there was an idea floated around that all plotlines seem to be used twice....this would complete the Jaime=Loras arc at least.

Also, if you reread Pycelles reveal about the moontea youll see that he was under some duress to name names....it could be he is just flatout fabricating things.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Mayhaps Marg and Olenna are trying to get Marg pregnant and claim the child as Tommen's. If Marg had a son, then the Tyrells could kill Tommen and move themselves into power equal to, if not greater than, the Lannisters. Remember, the Lannisters are trying the exact same ploy with Edmure Tully and mayhaps Robb Stark.

What??!!?? Did I miss something or wasn't Tommen a 7-8 year old boy who liked to play with the seals on letters and decrees and whatnot. I mean, unless Westerosi boys get their pubes alot earlier than in real life, how could this even be considered a good plan. If this is indeed the plan, then the Tyrells planted thei brains in the rose patch and forgot to pick them back up.

[Charming Serpent]

I'm going to sideline any usual conspiracy babble just for the nonce on this post.


....... Maybe she's just a ho?

[Boaz]

In my AFFC American hardback, page 103, Cersei's first chapter, Martin writes...

...Queen Margaery, she reminded herself; Joff's widow and Tommen's wife-to-be. Margaery looked very like her brother, the Knight of Flowers. The queen wondered if they had other things in common. Our little rose has a good many ladies waiting attendance on her, night and day. They were with her now, almost a dozen of them...

The wording other things in common sounded like a thougt that either Tyrion or Jaime had in ASOS regarding Loras and Margaery's relationship. Because of Jaime and Cersei's relationship I tended to think of other things in common meant incest. But what if Cersei was not thinking incest, but homosexuality? Now re-read the above passage.

Might this explain Osney's failure to get Margaery alone and seduce her? But it does not explain the moon tea.

I'm always tempted to just dismiss whatever conclusion that Cersei reaches as wrong. She's not dumb, but her egotism and self-centeredness skews her perceptions horribly. Her instincts are correct, but her conclusions are all wrong.

I think it's interesting that Cersei ends the book with a female lover.

[Charming Serpent]

Another good observation, Boaz. If she is a lesbian then, like you said, what about the Moon Tea? She also, from what I remember, has requested it more than once from Pycelle? So, what's up with that? Is it for a number of her handmaidens who might be bisexual or perhaps her doing favors by keeping it discreet to hide shame from her straight ladies who might be doing things with members of the castle etc...??

[Boaz]

I don't know. I wish I did. It's another enigma.

I personally think that Margaery is exactly what she appears. A pretty girl with a good head on her shoulders and tutored by her grandmother to be a player, yet still just a girl who wants to be a fun loving teenager.

Edit: Okay, I found another possible reference or mayhaps just a red herring... Pages 347-8.

Read Cersei's and Osmund's conversation with Margaery as a lesbian in mind. I'll give you the highlights...

Cersei: I am running short of patience with dear Osney. He should have plucked the rose by now. Is the little queen blind to his charms?

Osmund: His charms is fine. He's a Kettleblack, ain't he? It's her that's the trouble... They are never alone. Two of her ladies share her bed...

Yes, it's extremely weak, but since Cersei seems to be leaving her first instincts and missing the target... well, it makes me like the idea.