Least Favorite Character

[Lubbock]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Yes, my point exactly. I can't help but feel for Tyrion especially, when I talk about circumstance. A misshapen dwarf with a disdain for authority could hardly have been born to more inappropriate and unaccepting family!

Lets not forget he is the one who tries to do good to the peasants and the common folk, but gets nothing but distrust and slander againt him, i really feel for when he was Hand and did so much good and yet still considered a monster

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Lubbock

Lets not forget he is the one who tries to do good to the peasants and the common folk, but gets nothing but distrust and slander againt him, i really feel for when he was Hand and did so much good and yet still considered a monster

Yes, very true. There are a lot of reasons why I do not consider Tyrion to be a villain-esque character - but he made Boaz's list, so I wanted to address him a little. He's a hard character not to like, I found; very cunning and determined, yet at the same time somehow naive and vulnerable.

[Boaz]

Sansa's not the only one finding out that life is not a song.

Tyrion has deep seated resentment regarding his overlooked efforts as Hand. By contrast, Jaime has learned to live with the fact that no one knows that he single handedly saved KL.

Jaime once told Brienne, iirc, something to the fact that he's hated by all for his greatest deed and loved by Tyrion for his worst.

[vervain_ashe]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Jaime once told Brienne, iirc, something to the fact that he's hated by all for his greatest deed and loved by Tyrion for his worst.

What is this IIRC? (I'm not an acronym wiz! D'oh!)

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by vervain_ashe

What is this IIRC? (I'm not an acronym wiz! D'oh!)

It means "If I remember correctly", IIRC.

[Charming Serpent]

Leats favorite? Hm ..... Arya and Sansa ....... boring as hell and Sansa just plain sucks. Arya at least jailhouse stabs people.

[devilsgrin]

Originally Posted by viZion

Wow, devilsgrin, you dislike a lot of the most popular characters! I can see why you hate Eddard (I'm not his biggest fan, either) and even Tyrion but I'd love to hear your reasons about Dany and Davos.

Also, DeannaBelle, I've heard that Sansa is not really a Stark anymore since she lost her wolf (even GRRM implied that, right?) but maybe it's not what people think. Maybe her lack of Stark-ness will allow her to be the first Stark that can play the game of thrones. She still has a huge role to play and her decidedly unStark-like political awareness will probably be what the Starks need to get back into power. I mean, no one in the book is going to say, "Uh, you're not really a Stark because you lost your wolf so you'd best join up with the Lannisters".

Ok on Dany and Davos...

Dany first... when we meet her we are introduced to a considerably naive, and yes i'll say it... Sansa-like character... no shes not as ignorant as Sansa, but very nearly. She's completely dominated by Viserys and allows herself to be sold to Khal Drogo... whilst she didn't have much choice, she barely objected when Viserys informed her of that... Flash forward a book or so, and still at barely 14 we see a completely intollerable brat. She's become Stannis and Joffrey rolled into one. - the whole "its my kingdom and everyone should bow to me"... and "i'm the queen you can't do that/say that to me"... she annoys me more than just about any other character. in fact she borderlines the 'loathed' list. her attitude when she discovers that Whitebeard is Barristan Selmy (who didn't see that from the first intant?) about 'betrayal' is typical of her horrendous behaviour.

I dislike Davos less than others on my list but the primary reason he's on it is his loyalty to Stannis. It defies logic... heres a man that chopped of his fingertips because Davos had stolen/smuggled before, yet this same man is the one who Davos' smuggling skills saved the life of. He remains loyal in the face of Melisandre's influence on the "king" and the idiocies she preaches. The loss of his son to the "King's" cause. Davos has been utterly brainwashed by Stannis into believing losing only his fingertips was a just thing. Stannis' ingratitude for his own life is staggering... and that Davos doesn't see that is simply staggering.

[Lubbock]

Originally Posted by devilsgrin

Ok on Dany and Davos...


I dislike Davos less than others on my list but the primary reason he's on it is his loyalty to Stannis. It defies logic... heres a man that chopped of his fingertips because Davos had stolen/smuggled before, yet this same man is the one who Davos' smuggling skills saved the life of. He remains loyal in the face of Melisandre's influence on the "king" and the idiocies she preaches. The loss of his son to the "King's" cause. Davos has been utterly brainwashed by Stannis into believing losing only his fingertips was a just thing. Stannis' ingratitude for his own life is staggering... and that Davos doesn't see that is simply staggering.

I think Davos i loyal because of what Stannis gave him he gave Dvos a chance to end his smuggler life, become one of the upper class, made sure Davos children could have a future, and not just as common folk, Davos says it many times how happy he is that his sons are making something of them selves, and yes Stannis chopped of his fingers, but he also gave Davos and his family a good future, i always considered that was where the loyalty came from, a good future....even if it all then went down the drain

[viZion]

Following up on what Lubbock says, Davos specifically states in ACOK that the reason he's so grateful to Stannis is because his family will be set long after he's dead. He says something to effect of "I know they'll never respect me and probably not my sons because they still view us as lowborn, but my grandsons will be respected for being highborn". I actually think his loyalty is great but to each their own.

[Boaz]

Stannis gave Davos the opportunity to become an ancestor... which is the greatest thing a commoner can aspire to.

On the other hand if Davos is brainwashed, he did it to himself. He either needed to take vengeance upon Stannis or accept Stannis' terms. He accepted and Stannis became one of the pillars of Davos' life... mayhaps I should say anchor in Davos' case. In ASOS, we see how desperately Davos works to support Stannis. I think in Davos' mind if Stannis fails morally, then Davos' service, his fingers, the sacrifice of his precious sons, and in fact all of Davos' behavior has been wrong. Davos cannot have that, so he props up Stannis with every ounce of energy and every means at his disposal.

Stannis is the physical representation of Davos' concepts of morality and justice. Stannis cannot fail in Davos' eyes. If Stannis fails, then Davos must admit he failed/betrayed his children, his wife, his dreams, and his purpose as a man.

[TK-421]

Davos is the honour and loyalty that was seen in Ned in a different character. Both are highly likeable but also honourable and loyal to a fault. I hope Davos doesn't face the same consequence for this fault as Ned did, I like him much better.

[KiwiBird]

It would have been normal for Davos to be pardoned for his crimes yes, but in a way the reasoning is correct, this good deed does not nullify his wrongdoings. Also you cannot say Stannis has not rewarded Davos and his offspring well for his services. It is true that Davos lost lots of his boys, but that is war, and you cant blame Stannis for that. He is in a way the the now true king of westeros.

As for Davos remaining loyal, he did try to kill Melisandre. He is loyal to the old Stannis, the stannis before melisandre. Even though that man is not likeable, he is most respectable. From my point of view Stannis is struggling to remain who he was. Trying his best not to lose himself. Davos is essential for this, if not for him Stannis would fall to the red lady quickly. Even now she is slowly starting to take complete control of him, making him from the man he was into a mere puppet for her to control and use.

[devilsgrin]

and with Davos no longer by Stannis' side, the 'king' will certainly struggle to retain his identity.
I don't particularly disagree with any point about Davos and his motivations... i just find Stannis so hard to like that anyone who DOES like Stannis becomes disliked almost collaterally.
My major issue is that chopping off Davos' fingers may have been gratitude in Stannis' eyes, considering the knighthood he received aswell... but it shows Stannis' inflexibility, and such a trait cannot hope to find at least my own admiration/gratitude. There is perhaps a grudging level of respect for a man who sticks to his beliefs through and through, but theres also the point where not deviating from a truly lost cause is simply idiocy and worthy of contempt - Stannis is just such a person.

TK... i like Davos more than i like Ned too. And even though i personally dislike Davos, i don't want to see him dead either. Fingers crossed that in the least his son who is Stannis' squire survives... (is he still alive even?).

I'll also agree that more than likely, Davos has brainwashed himself Boaz. for all your reasoning of why Davos is loyal.

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by devilsgrin

i just find Stannis so hard to like that anyone who DOES like Stannis becomes disliked almost collaterally.

This can be soooo true. I dislike Catelyn, therefore I dislike Robb, Sansa, Bran, Ned, Rickon and Arya. Okay, well maybe I don't dislike all the Starks, but I sure have more apathy/antipathy towards them than I should have.

[viZion]

I wish I could remember what happens to Sansa in AFFC. If I could remember I might not make what's probably going to be a stupidly ignorant comment...

I think Sansa will end up being the downfall of Littlefinger. She'll use what he's taught her against him and the good guy Starks will conquer that foe.

Arya will end up killing everyone on her deathlist, most notably Queen Cersei.

Bran will fight the Others by boring them to death with his whining and fantasies.

Rickon will end up selling used horses.

Robb and Ned are dead so I don't think they'll be of much use anymore.