Least Favorite Character

[Falsteed]

Originally Posted by KiwiBird

3) Sansa Stark - one word : Greatest traitor of them all even if she is a little girl.

How can you hold an ignorant little girls prejudices and illusions against her? And besides, Arya will be reunited with Nymeria and I will probably cry.

[KiwiBird]

she was 11 or older at the time, not 6 years old.
An 11 year old girl is more then old enough to be held responsible for her actions, her brain has developed more then enough to know and comprehend what exactly she was doing. The fact that she is rather slow (up until now at least) does not excuse her. She knew full well what she was doing and got what she deserved. She is a traitor to her own family who where always good to her. So yes, i can hold it against her, and be among my least favorite characters for it, though there are plenty of other reasons.

[Rohan]

Theon Greyjoy always irritated me. He had, for me, none of the power of some of the series' villains, nor the likeable qualities of the 'heroes'. He always struck me as a petty twerp with a cruel streak.

Sansa bugged me a good deal early on, too; but as time went on, and we saw her character develop somewhat, she grew on me. Now I tolerate her with mild curiosity - a big improvement, I assure you.

Catelyn Stark could grate a little, too. And her current...disposition...isn't helping any. She plays the role of wooden, put-upon martyr too well for my taste. Besides, she gave Jon a hard time, so she has a black mark next to her name for me.

I like characters with charisma; whether they are good, evil, or ambiguous. Characters with style and power. Conversely, characters with none of these qualities tend to irk me.

[Boaz]

Kiwi, I agree that Theon's life has not been easy. Balon sold him to Robert and Eddard to save his own life... then Balon blames Theon for this. Theon has had unfair events happen to him, but he's chosen to respond with vengeance, treachery and depravity.

I would consider his last night with Kyra as rape. It seems he beat and bit her while she cried and screamed. To me that seems against her will. She may have gone willingly, but I doubt she wanted to be abused.

[TK-421]

I feel pity for Theon and I know he would hate me for it. Pity is the last thing he wants and what he really seeks is respect, especially from his family. I don't hate him and hope he will redeem himself. I think Asha will help Theon and he will, in the end, do something that will help the Starks.

As for Sansa, I too disliked her at first, then felt really bad for the crappy way that Joff treated his dear bethroted. I was happy she married Tyrion because it was the only way she could survive long enough to escape. The new Sansa (courtesy of her time in King's Landing and some tutoring by Littlefinger) is very intriguing. As heir to Winterfell, she is bound for being a very important piece of the final puzzle.

[KiwiBird]

I forgot about the last night with her, i only remembered he never forced a woman into his bed. If i recall he was influenced somewhat by the weirwood. Even so Theon is indeed not a great man, a man whom has done many bad/evil things, however he aint that bad as many other characters among wich the more loveable dwarf. Theon is a bit of an @ss though it is true, still i cant help but enjoy reading his chapters, his thought pattern just make me laughs.

[cape_royds]

Originally Posted by Boaz

He is a liar, a lech, a deceiver, a betrayer, a murderer, a raper, and an ass. He's heartless, faithless, unintelligent, and ungrateful. He whines, moans, brags, and boasts. He expects people to love him because he's Theon. He's basically Cersei without the talent, looks, guts, or money.

Hear, Hear!

Theon's arrogance puts him out of the reach of pity, and his sadism puts him out of the reach of mercy.

I don't know about unintelligent, though. Theon had considerable cunning. Even Asha admitted that his capture of Winterfell was quite nicely done--although his vain attempt to hold it as his own princely seat was absurd.

[cape_royds]

Originally Posted by TK-421

As for Sansa, I too disliked her at first, then felt really bad for the crappy way that Joff treated his dear bethroted. I was happy she married Tyrion because it was the only way she could survive long enough to escape. The new Sansa (courtesy of her time in King's Landing and some tutoring by Littlefinger) is very intriguing. As heir to Winterfell, she is bound for being a very important piece of the final puzzle.

I am afraid Sansa is going to become quite a nasty piece of work by the time the tale is done. Imagine the seductive wiles of Cersei combined with the Petyr's genius for intrigue.

Sansa has had every illusion, every standard of decency, torn away from her one by one. She will learn that power is everything and that lying is good. There are no true knights--and no true ladies, either.

Sansa has "been taken to school," and she will have learned her lessons well. Watch out!

[Falsteed]

Originally Posted by KiwiBird

An 11 year old girl is more then old enough to be held responsible for her actions, her brain has developed more then enough to know and comprehend what exactly she was doing. The fact that she is rather slow (up until now at least) does not excuse her.

She was caught up in the court, severely delusioned, and had no notion that people could be so cruel. It seems absurd to me that you are holding her accountable for her selfishness and geniune ignorance of the world, saying that an 11 year old girl should be able to comprehend everything as it is and not be misguided by emotion. You also seem to be accusing her of Eddards death; if anything, Ned is to blame for not taking control of the situation when he had the chance. He knew the nature of the game.

I hate how she acted earlier in the series, but I can't hate a selfish child.

[lauren20062001]

Sansa still did betray her father for Joff...that's just wrong. I think Catelyn and Ned probably raised her to know better than that. Being in "love" doesn't excuse the offense.

[Falsteed]

Originally Posted by lauren20062001

Sansa still did betray her father for Joff...that's just wrong.

She betrayed her father because she did not want to leave Kings Landing, for her it was everything she could never have in Winterfell. I'm not trying to justify the things she did, but she was ruled by emotion. A girl of 11 can't see the bigger picture or what's right, she only sees her father will not listen to her and does not care about her happiness. You're telling me you've never gotten angry at your parents or siblings because you didn't think they weren't considering your feelings? How could she possibly know her actions would cause so much trouble for her father?

Again, even though Eddard was one of my favorite characters, it's his own fault he's dead. (And that idiot Robert for getting him into that mess.)

You can't hate a selfish, ignorant child, blinded by emotion, for being a kid. If you do you're acting just like she does towards Arya.

[KiwiBird]

Originally Posted by Falsteed

She betrayed her father because she did not want to leave Kings Landing, for her it was everything she could never have in Winterfell. I'm not trying to justify the things she did, but she was ruled by emotion. A girl of 11 can't see the bigger picture or what's right, she only sees her father will not listen to her and does not care about her happiness. You're telling me you've never gotten angry at your parents or siblings because you didn't think they weren't considering your feelings? How could she possibly know her actions would cause so much trouble for her father?

Again, even though Eddard was one of my favorite characters, it's his own fault he's dead. (And that idiot Robert for getting him into that mess.)

You can't hate a selfish, ignorant child, blinded by emotion, for being a kid. If you do you're acting just like she does towards Arya.

I dont hate her, i dislike her. And a girl of 11 CAN see the bigger picture of what is right. She knew what she did was wrong when she did it. Thats like saying you should never punish children for their misdemeanors cause they dont understand that what they did is wrong. I am currently learning to be an elementary school teacher (2nd year out of third) and one of the things you got to learn our the children (mental) development. At age 11 children do have a clear picture of what is good and bad, right and wrong. While she was ignorant and she did not know the consequences of her actions, she still knew very well that she was betraying her father. Even if her actions did not have had those consequences, i cannot help but dislike her for it. (among other things).

Personally i think you put 11 year olds too much on a pedestial. They are most definitely not as sweet, and innocent as you see them. Sansa may see herself as a little princess, she most definitely is not.

[Falsteed]

By pedestal, you mean to say I think children can do no wrong, and should not be taught right from wrong? Certainly not. As for me seeing Sansa as being sweet and innocent, I don't think anything I said came off that way. I said she was a selfish child (and I will add miserable).

When I've seen grown women, and a few men, act completely irrationally because of their emotions, can I understand a child being ruled by hers? Yes. When you're blinded by emotion, it is impossible to see things clearly. Does that exscuse her? Ofcourse not.

But there are many more disfavorable people in the series I should think. I was mad as hell for what she did, and what happened to Ned because of it; but I forgave her for being selfish. Why won't you? It's your opinon and I'll stop making a fight out of it, I can hardly remember the intricacies of the story to tell the truth, so everything is probably not straight in my head. (By big picture, I meant the desperate situation Eddard was in.)

[KiwiBird]

Perhaps if she had shown an improvement since then, however she is as selfish as ever.

[Lady of Winterfell]

Originally Posted by viZion

You almost sound offended because my post didn't agree with yours. You're not the only person to list Theon in this thread .

I was definately not offended by your thread. Sorry if I came across that way, I just wanted to make sure I made the point that Theon was one of my least favorite characters, I didn't hate him. They are two different things to me. Besides, we come to these boards to hear others opinions and to express our own, so it would be crazy to be offended by someone just because they don't agree with you.

On the Sansa discussion, I do believe that Sansa knew that what she was doing was wrong. In one of her POV chapters in AGOT (which I am currently rereading) these are her thoughts about going to Cersei with the information of her fathers actions:

"She (Sansa) was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father."

She admits that she felt that what she was doing was wrong, but she did it anyway, out of love for Joffrey. Man, if that girl could only have looked into the future...