Question on Gandalf

[Wiglaf]

Odin never did much flashy magic when he appeared in an epic and he was the leader of the gods. Seeing as he started as a kind of more accessable Odin figure in the hobbit(perhaps with the tiniest influence of Merlin), Gandalf uses his magic to meddle quite a bit.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by orionsixwings

Balrogs are demons that are beyond the abilities of normal warriors.

They are also Maiar, corrupted by Melkor -- brethren to Sauron, one might say (though not necessarily with the same degree of power....)

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

They are also Maiar, corrupted by Melkor -- brethren to Sauron, one might say (though not necessarily with the same degree of power....)

...which are essentially beyond the capabilities of warriors to defeat.

[dekket]

Glorfindel (Chief of the House of the Golden Flower and High Captain of Gondolin) defeated a Balrog at Cirith Thoronath, as the survivors of Gondolin fled the assault of Morgoth's armies.
Whilst Glorfindel was an Elf lord, and held within him the light of Valinor, he was no Maiar, and yet he (although it cost him his life) slew a Balrog (The Silmarillion, in Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin).
So the defeat of a Balrog is within the capabilities of a warrior. It is just not a survivable feat.
But then again, Gandalf didn't survive the defeat of his Balrog either, and was sent back into Middle Earth by the Valar.
Come to think of it, Glorfindel himself return to Middle Earth, as he is seen in The Lord of the Rings as one of Elrond's Captains in Rivendell, who is one of the few Elf Lords still with the power to stand against the Nine.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by dekket

Come to think of it, Glorfindel himself return to Middle Earth, as he is seen in The Lord of the Rings as one of Elrond's Captains in Rivendell, who is one of the few Elf Lords still with the power to stand against the Nine.

But were Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell the same person?

Welcome to the wonderful world of......(ta ta taaaa!) The Glorfindel Question......

The Encyclopedia of Arda

[Clansman]

I must agree with J.D. and Teresa about Sean Bean. His portrayal gave Boromir a much more human feel, and the death was much more tragic and redeeming.

I also have to defend Jackson a wee bit. This was possibly the hardest screen play to write ever. Compressing a book of this size into three 3.5 hour movies was a gargantuan task, and he did it remarkably well. It is good that he did not stay faithful to the book, as that would have been all but impossible, and they would have been unwatchable. The adage that the book is always better than the movie is a truism, but that does not mean that the movie can't be great.

Gandalf. Very wizardly. He killed the Balrog, came back to life, and then went on etc. and so-on. What's not wizardly about that?

Balrogs can be killed by elf warriors, but not human warriors, No way. You'd get a little too crispy before you could get your sword in. After all, the death of Smaug was a really, really lucky shot, and up close, the poor sod would have been ashes or dinner.

[The Procrastinator]

Reckons I, Gandalf's magic comes not from what he can do, but who he is - what manner of being he is. Its not really about outward expression, but about essence. That's not really explored in the movies, so to get a fuller sense of Gandalf's power - most of which he never uses - you do need to read the books. The difference between elves and men isn't gone into much either. Tolkien's elves seem to have a "spiritual" dimension that men lack, I don't mean in the sense of holiness, I mean in the sense of their life force being rooted not only in their physical being. As with Gandalf, its a difference of essence, very difficult to get across in a movie.

I too have many quibbles with Peter Jackson's adaptation (don't get me started on Frodo, Faramir or Treebeard) but I think that on the whole he did a pretty good job and sometimes he did an excellent job. I liked his changes with Boromir, giving the viewer the benefit of what in the book are later reflections. I thought making him a more sympathetic character "in the now" rather than in hindsight was a good move.

[Clansman]

Quibbles galore with Jackson. But just quibbles (Frodo (that plaintive look by what-his-name who played him drove me nuts by RotK), Treebeard (I guess they ran out of voices??) and especially ELROND!!!(Just what did Jackson tell Hugo Weaving to do??))

But he got Gandalf right. Bang on. 'Course, it would be pretty hard not to get Gandalf right.

[The Ace]

If you hadn't read the book, you wouldn't have heard of Glorfindel anyway, he was replaced by Legolas in the cartoon and Arwen in Jackson's film (which I have to say I enjoyed, considering that after the disastrous cartoon LOTR was pronounced impossible to film at all. Jackson came fairly close to achieving the impossible as far as I'm concerned).

[Clansman]

Ditto, Ace. Ditto.

The cartoon never even finished, for crying out loud. I don't remember where it left off, as I saw the cartoon about 30 years ago.

[devilsgrin]

it leaves off after the battle at Helms Deep iirc... i have a copy somewhere, will have to check to make sure...

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

They are also Maiar, corrupted by Melkor -- brethren to Sauron, one might say (though not necessarily with the same degree of power....)

Wasn't Melkor, like, Sauron's boss?

[j. d. worthington]

Melkor was one of the Valar, and yes, he was the one who corrupted Sauron (originally one of the followers of Aule, iirc). He was also one of the most powerful of the Powers, and the original Dark Lord....