Opinions about Manuscript Assessment Agencies

[Knulp]

Hi all,

One year on, I am nearing the end of the fifth draft of my YA book. I'm getting increasingly to the point of 'snow-blindness', where I can quite see what I've written any more.

I'm now at the stage of handing the next draft out to friends for the first round of feedback. However, I'm quite interested in using a professional agency to assess the manuscript. I was just wondering if anybody had experience (good or bad) of these agencies and what opinions are?

Many thanks,

Nick

[dustinzgirl]

This thread has all the answers.

"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

Also, if it looks to cheap to be true, it probably isn't.

[Havlen]

John Jarrold and The Editorial Department are two good choices. The editorial department is located at:

TED | Since 1980: Because good writing deserves good editing | Editorial, Services, Writers, Fiction, Welcome

They offer a deal where you can get the first 10 pages looked at for $30, which is a pretty good deal, though there's only a limited amount of evaluation that can be given on a small snippet.

[Knulp]

Sounds like a step worth taking then. Thanks for the advice.

Nick

[DominicTook]

I don't know what the other threads suggest. But i'm using Cornerstones at the moment. If you can find an indepedant GOOD copy editor and yes it might cost a little bit, its worthit. But if it does cost a lot, make sure they give you good testimonials and try and contact the authors who they did work for, to ask them how good they are.

They may also in some cases help you get an agent or publisher.

Dominic Took

[Knulp]

Cornerstones sounds good. I was also thinking about The Writers Workshop. I would of course I'd like to talk to John Jarrold, but he sounds a bit tied up at the moment!

Nick

[Meadowhawk]

In the past, I would have suggested an author 'invest' in their craft. Put the money towards some writing conferences or online classes. You need to be your own editor, you need to be a student of your art. However, looking through some of these referrals, it seems that some of these services take a very hands-on, tutorial approach. As long as it's a learning experience, it may very well be worth the investment.

[Havlen]

Originally Posted by Meadowhawk

In the past, I would have suggested an author 'invest' in their craft. Put the money towards some writing conferences or online classes. You need to be your own editor, you need to be a student of your art. However, looking through some of these referrals, it seems that some of these services take a very hands-on, tutorial approach. As long as it's a learning experience, it may very well be worth the investment.

I agree. Third party editorial services should be used as a learning device. First, I would suggest books on editing. After devouring a few of these and putting them to good use, a third party editor can be a good way to find 'blind spots' in your writing -- things you do that you don't know that you do. But it should all be done with getting your writing skills to the point that you are prepared to catch the eye of an agent/publisher without the need for any editing outside of your own.

[SJAB]

I would suggest a good critique group first, before looking for a manuscript assessment agency. Also, I consider someone like John Jarrold to be an editor you hire to help you improve/tighten your work, much the same way an editor at a publishers would do, rather than some one who "assesses" the manuscript with regards to its publishing protential.

[Knulp]

Using a critique group is exactly what I'm about to do next, although my wife (very usefully an English teacher), is do an extensive proof read at the moment.

At the moment I feel a bit like a deep sea diver coming back up for air and getting good solid feedback is exactly what I need to do now. I've got some very useful contacts into the publishing industry, but don't want to use those until I really think I've done everything I can to prepare the manuscript to a suitable level.

I really like the idea of working with John. I'm just a bit worried, going by what others have said, that he may be a bit tied up with things at the moment and the last thing he will want to see right now is another manuscript landing on his doormat!

Thanks to everyone for the advice – I really do appreciate it.

Nick

[Lanista]

Jacqui Bennett Writers Bureau are excellent and reasonably priced.

they are at jbwb.co.uk/

Cheers


Russ

[Meadowhawk]

Nick: I don't know if you've covered this elsewhere, but what is the abridged version of your journey? I ask, because, while 5 rewrites for a first time novel is not extreme--there is also a danger of rewrite-paralysis. If every time someone reads your work, they come back with suggestions and--oops, time for another rewrite.

Critique groups can be great for many reasons, but some folks I know in the industry are cynical about their effectiveness. The reasoning goes that there are two types of people in critique groups; 1) those who want you to like them, so they give you unconditional praise, and 2) those who don't like you, and will break your work down and be overly negative. Personally, I believe the true value in a critique group is not in having your work critiqued, but in critiquing others' work. In doing so, you learn how to become an editor and how to fix your own work. Over editing, or too many rewrites based on outside feedback can cause you to lose your voice in the storytelling.

At some point (if you haven't done so), you need to push away from the dock and get your mss out there.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Meadowhawk

Personally, I believe the true value in a critique group is not in having your work critiqued, but in critiquing others' work. In doing so, you learn how to become an editor and how to fix your own work.

I agree that this is a large part of the benefit of joining a good critique group (the kind where nobody cares who likes who, but everyone is committed to helping each other improve -- because they expect the same committment from others).

Over editing, or too many rewrites based on outside feedback can cause you to lose your voice in the storytelling.

But this is exactly why joining the right group is good. You get all of your advice at once, weigh different opinions, and then do one rewrite based on their input, rather than rewrite a chapter or a longer section every single time you gather comments.

Losing your voice is definitely a problem with over-critiquing, but I believe that comes from putting your work up for critique too early in the process. (In this case, after five drafts, it would not be too early.)

If it's not too immodest to quote myself, here's what I said about that subject in my article "17 Things ... ":

Allow your vision of the story to solidify before you allow other people to put their hands on it. If it’s still too malleable they’re likely to distort it -- or worse, try to fit it into their own mold. You need to develop your own individual style, your own unique voice, you need to learn how to tell the story that only you can tell, and how can you do any of this if you are relying on other people to tell you what to say and how to say it every single step of the way?

This applies to friends, family, critique groups, and manuscript assessment agencies.

[Havlen]

Originally Posted by Meadowhawk

Personally, I believe the true value in a critique group is not in having your work critiqued, but in critiquing others' work. In doing so, you learn how to become an editor and how to fix your own work. Over editing, or too many rewrites based on outside feedback can cause you to lose your voice in the storytelling.

Agreed. Working with a critique group should have the goal of making yourself a better writer, which usually entails making yourself a better editor.

At some point (if you haven't done so), you need to push away from the dock and get your mss out there.

I'd add "and start your next novel." I've always thought of the first novel I wrote as going to school to learn how to write. Now that I have been to school, I have given myself a chance to write something good. But, like school, sometimes the homework isn't quite ready for prime time.

[Knulp]

Fantastic advice as always.

The redrafting process for me has been very, very intense. I've so radically changed the book from the first draft, that in reality it's a totally new book! In some ways I view that first draft as a bit of creative mental workout. When I got to the third draft I completely got rid of the second half of the 2nd draft as well. It certainly feels like I've written 1.5 books to get to this current version.

I'm happy now to hand out the manuscript, partly as I've really grappled to find my voice through the drafting process - forged in fires of hell and all that! For now at least, I'm confident that voice will survive the input period. Actually my experience as a creative director should be useful here. IMHO everyone in the world is an art critic and are more than happy to tell you their opinion! You quickly learn, partly as a survival strategy, what feedback you need to take on board and what to filter – otherwise you end out just going round in circles.

The plan is to gather feedback on the current draft and incorporate it, where appropriate, into this single draft. By that point I feel reasonably confident about handing it to a guru like John.

Funny you should mention the next book, I actually started the outline today and found myself getting very quickly drawn into it (lots of bottled up ideas that didn't make it to the first book). However, having learnt some lessons from the first book, I will spend a bit more time on background preparation before I plunge in this time.

I have to say you're all a lifeline going through this for the first time. Many, many thanks.

Nick