Unoriginal Hollywood

[HardScienceFan]

Bertrand Tavernier: Ca Commence Aujourd'hui
that's about as far away from Hollywood as you can get
about a kindergarten teacher and the things he encounters in his work

this one 'll make you laugh at what the Americans call "acting" and direction
the French are ahead of the Americans by about 6.783.967.308.296.467.423.735
kilometers
want more?

[iansales]

How about some Arabic/African films?

Abouna
Bint Keltoum
Atash
Divine Intervention

[Connavar]

Thanks guys.


HardSFF: Pm more if you want, i dont wanna hijack the thread.

What i should do is watch more French movies. I have seen there is french movie versions of both PKD stories and Stark stories. I would like to see those movies.

[unclejack]

I have to say also that I think it's a weak argument saying that the people who go to those big blown out movies that have no real quality ruin it for everyone else. Hollywood is huge and I seriously doubt that my decision to not go see Transformers, which I refuse to watch, is gonna make any real difference at all. But then again, on the other side of the coin, Hollywood hasn't taken in this little amount of money in a really long time. It really is in a slump and the box office doesn't rake in as much money as it used to and i think it is because of the low quality moviies that are bein put out ther. (Sorry but I dont have any statistics for you but that has been on the news for ever now....there are very few huge movies that rake in big doe anymore. )

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

You must have short memory or havent seen many older movies.

What people are saying are the big movies was of better quality in 60's-80's.

Nowadays movies that make money are more about the computer effects than actors skill.

Compare Oscar winning Godfather to Gladatior winning oscar......

60's? 80's?!? I have a short memory?

How 'bout the fifties? The forties? The thirties? The oldest movie you mentioned was The Godfather. Seen anything in black and white?

How many movies came out in the same year as Citizen Kane? Lawrence of Arabia? On The Waterfront? Gone With The Wind? Casablanca? The Caine Mutiny? Midway? Lots. How many of them do we remember? Not many. Why? Most of them were dogs.

I'm talking Hollywood's entire history... not just the last few decades. You go all the way back to the silent era, and you'll find more dogs than good flicks! Hollywood has always used the revenue from popular movies to finance lesser movies, which they promoted as much as possible to get as many people in to see them (and make more money). And plenty of those other movies sucked eggs... that's why we evolved a critics system, to give the public fair warning when Hollywood wouldn't!

I have a hard time finding movies at the video store too... mostly, that's because, as they've dumped their VHS collections for DVDs, they stock fewer and fewer of the old movies, the classics, the oscar winners, and more Final Destination 6-7/8 and Little Nicky. I rarely even go to the video store anymore, I just buy the movies I really want, mostly from online sources.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by unclejack

But then again, on the other side of the coin, Hollywood hasn't taken in this little amount of money in a really long time. It really is in a slump and the box office doesn't rake in as much money as it used to and i think it is because of the low quality moviies that are bein put out ther.

They are in a slump... no new material. There are more remakes now than ever, and that's what's hurting them more than anything else. They need new blood, new ideas, new concepts, all of it. (No wonder they're trying to bring 3-D back...)

[clovis-man]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

How many movies came out in the same year as Citizen Kane? Lawrence of Arabia? On The Waterfront? Gone With The Wind? Casablanca? The Caine Mutiny? Midway? Lots. How many of them do we remember? Not many. Why? Most of them were dogs.

I'm not taking sides here, but wanted to point out that there were a couple of good films in the same years as the cited movies. Starting with 1939:

1939:Gone With The Wind, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Of Mice and Men, Stagecoach (What do you think Firefly is based on), The Wizard of Oz.

1941: Citizen Kane, How Green Was My Valley, The Maltese Falcon, Sergeant York.

1943: Casablanca, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Ox-Bow Incident, Watch on the Rhine.

I'll stop here, but there were lots of good films during the period in question.

Jim

[Steve Jordan]

Yes... I wasn't suggesting that my list were the only good movies to come out in those years. My point was, Hollywood made a lot more movies than that in those years... the combined studios usually turn out multiple dozens of movies in a single year... most of which have (thankfully) faded into obscurity, because they were no good.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

...as they've dumped their VHS collections for DVDs, they stock fewer and fewer of the old movies... I rarely even go to the video store anymore, I just buy the movies I really want, mostly from online sources.

I've been disappointed to find that with the Video Rental stores too, but on the other hand the price of older DVDs has come right down so that you can find some for £3 or £5. At that price it isn't worth renting it.

[unclejack]

I'd like to say also that I acknowledge that this isn't the first time that Hollywood has been in a slump. But I can't remember a time when we've had so many recycled stories, remakes, and neverending sagas in Hollywood history. I am by no means an expert on Hollywood and everything that has come out in it's history. But my main point is this..while there are good movies that come out, it seems like the kind of movies that are truly stellar like Dances with Wolves, Silence of the Lambs, Saving Private Ryan, A Beautiful Mind, are very hard to find. And that is a fairly recent list, (completely subject to my opinion and my taste in movies so don't freak out if you don't like one or more of those movies cuz I'm just tryin to make a point) A beautiful mind came out in 2001, so I'm really just talkin about the last few years even though i think this slump has been goin on for a long time. There are good movie avaialable in Hollywood, but I think they aren't as good as they used to be.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Yes... I wasn't suggesting that my list were the only good movies to come out in those years. My point was, Hollywood made a lot more movies than that in those years... the combined studios usually turn out multiple dozens of movies in a single year... most of which have (thankfully) faded into obscurity, because they were no good.

It looks like we are talking about totaly different things.


You are saying Hollywood has always done alot of movies per year and the bad ones are always more than good ones. I agree with that you, its almost universal rule on anything, there is always more crap than good in anything....


What im saying is the biggest movies in hollywood the ones people talk most and like most was better before.


I also wish the superhero trend could die if they are as bad as Spidey 3,X-men II,III ,FF,Ghost Rider,DD etc

[unclejack]

Originally Posted by Connavar of Rigante

I also wish the superhero trend could die if they are as bad as Spidey 3,X-men II,III ,FF,Ghost Rider,DD etc

I think we're gonna have to agree to dissagree on that one. As a comic book fan I have to say that I love the translation from comics to movies, it's the one thing that keeps me goin back to the movies. I loved the spiderman trilogy, the x-men trilogy, the new Batman movie, and the new superman film. I respect the fact that you didn't like those movies and it isn't your thing but I think that has more to do with personal taste than it does with Hollywood makin bad movies. Not everyone is gonna go for the same kind of movie.

[Connavar]

Im not saying all of Spiderman trilogy is bad but the trend has gone too far.

Creating way too many bad movies after the big ones.

You cant say you enjoyed Daredevil for example.....


Batman was one of the better ones.

Superman was ruined for me with the bad choice of the actor. Decent Clark,horrible Superman.

[unclejack]

lol, actually I did like Daredevil, and Elektra. But hey, that's my personal taste for what it's worth. I will say that Hulk was pure crap though, I hated that movie.
As far as Superman Returns goes, I think it's kinda a mute point when you talk about Brandon Routh as Superman, assuming that's what you mean when by a bad choice for the actor. I mean, personally I think Routh was a great choice for the role of Superman but that's just me. But the main point I'm makin is that the whole movie is really carried by the role of Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane. All the emotions and reactions of the audience are experience through her and she does a stellar job of bringing the changes that Lois goes through to the screen.
The main criticism that I've heard about Superman Returns is that it was too much of a love story and that it was lacking in action. I guess that's a valid point but there are two things I would say to that...First of all if you think back to the original Superman movies with Christopher Reeves and Margot Kidder you have to know that much of those movies, especially the first one was a love story. Alot of that movie was Superman and Lois Lane flyin around with her fallin in love with him, and then there was the story of Clark and how he came to leave smallville and become Superman complete with the death of his father so although there may have been more action in those movies than in Superman Returns there was also alot of drama too which made up the bulk of the movies.
Anyway, maybe it's just my own personal taste because I'm just not much for big blown out stunts and action. That alone can't really sell me on liking a movie, there has to be some degree of emotional content and drama in order for me to like it which is why I loved Superman Returns so much because it was full of that.
Another point regarding Superman Returns is the fact that it is the re-starting of the Superman saga which in my opinion should start out with some background info on where he's been and should deal with the emotions of the people involved in the story of superman in readjusting themselves to his return. I think Brian Singer did an excellent job and really laid the foundation for future Superman movies which yes, should be a step up above Superman returns in regards to action and fight scenes but should still contain and emulate the drama of the first one.
I guess you can see I'm a pretty passionate comic fan but like I said, if you don't agree then that's cool. I've actually heard the same critisicm about Spiderman 2 and 3...they were too much of a love story. I think those people think on a different frequency from me because from my perspective, what is a good action movie without strong drama and a good love story?

[Connavar]

Heh my problem is with comics movies is that i am a comics fan too! Even the better ones might have a thing that ruins a movie for me.

It gets to me that Ra's Al Ghul the only arabic villain DCU must be played by a an irish guy. Its annoys me they ruined the greatest villain Spiderman histroy , Venom. The Symboit was made into some disco parody instead the dark and amazing storyline it was in the comic.


Mainstream comics movies fan are lucky, they dont know what stories the movies are ruining by making it too much hollywood.....