Racial Stereotypes in Fantasy and David Eddings

[Creabots]

Perhaps this subject has been emphasized to the point of excess, but I still find it somewhat interesting. I notice while I was reading Pawn of Prophecy that racial sterotypes are apparently very prevalent, not only in David Eddings books, but in fantasy literature as well. True, the races are fictional, and I'm not condoning this either, I'm just bringing it up as a subject of interest. Sometimes I think that members of the same fictional race are too conveninently alike. All dwarves are drunkards, all elfs are tree-hugging nobles, etc. I notice that in Pawn of Prophecy (which I consent, is the only David Eddings book that I have read so far), Polgara and many of the main characters carry prejudices against some members of other races, like the murgos. Are all Murgos and thulls "Bad" in David Eddings books? Doesn't this kind of seem to convenient to anyone? What do people think about this and how it relates to diversification?

[ghost8772]

Well, Eddings Belgariad peoples are defined by the god they worship, since Murgos, Thulls, Nadraks, and later Malloreans All worship Torak, (evil bad god) they are seen as an extension of their god, Polgara, and Belgarath have both had a long time of being opponents of the Angaraks (their actual race). this all being said, yes, the Eddings' have racial stereotypes. as far as being an author goes, it makes it easier if the people you are dealing with have an underlying set of responses and then as an individual they have variations because of who the author decides they are. in the world of the belgariad these stereotypes are openly discussed. the arends are notoriously thick headed, even stupid, the nyissans are jungle dwelling narcotic addicts who love snakes, the tolnedrans are opportunistic. they will work to put themselves in a place to profit from any situation. not much said about the marags. sendarians are practical, and the alorns...... childish, war mongering, carousing, womanizing..... basic a bunch of kids with no real discipline to speak of. but they are presented as a united people though once one gets closer there are different people who do different things within.

[devilsgrin]

i also think that the prejudices of each of the characters, particularly Polgara, Belgarath and the adult companions fleshes them out more. These novels are set in a medievil period where egalitarianism and tolerance were anything but the norm. Racism was common and remains so in all societies - medievil or modern.
Individuals amongst all of eddings races are shown in both their stereotypical racial characteristics - excellent examples being Yarblek and Urgit - but with wide streaks of individualism. Cases can be made for Urgit - being half alorn, yet he was raised in Taur Urgas palace and was a murgo to the bone - just a very clever one.
Even Mandorallen and Lelldorin get to prove that idiocy isn't the Arendish curse, nobility is. As though both are utterly impulsive, neither are actually stupid. indeed the particularly Asturian predeliction for intricate, cunning plots proves the opposite.

[Harleyquin]

Were going to have to blame Tolkien here for most of the stereo types, sure there’s a host of pre Tolkien books that have the “typical” races in them but it was really Tolkien that defined them in terms as “drunken dwarfs, noble elves, evil orks…”

Remember the very old westerns the baddie would be wearing the black hat and the goodie the white hat… simple iconography to engender an instant recognition and emotional response to the people on screen – we know to boo the black hats and cheer the white hats. The stereo types as the others have said are little more than a device to give you a “feel” for the character even before you meet them as the others here have said. By maintaining an almost childish view of the races we can easily stamp them with a “defining” character… we know in reality the world doesn’t operate in such absolute – sure there both good and bad people in any society but overall we still even now swallow the racial stereo types that are thrown at us in the media – heck if you where to listen to the media in the middle east every man woman and child practically to a person are all just frothing lunatics waiting to blow you up at the drop of a hat… an insane image but one that the majority are being told to believe.

If you read Eddings not only does he give racial stereo types, his key plot is West vs East – with the West being the goodies and the east supplying the baddies – we factor in Mr Eddings age and we realise this is little more than a veiled “cold war” story – the Angaracs are the communist block (angular eyes – oh please!).

I totally understand the use of the stereo types in books, there a simple device to make you think and feel for the characters without having to go into huge detail about each person the characters meet along the way – we KNOW that the nyissans are going to be deviously snake like – the tonledrans are roman in quality – chereks the Vikings etc… all a very simple tool to make you put an instant back story to everybody you meet. Its no a book you read for the high intellectual qualities – more a book to just let your brain get swallowed up in a simple world where good can beat evil and evil is easily identified.

[ghost8772]

Harleyquin, I like your logic, the pieces fit nicely, including the one further step of Simplification that Eddings actually put in the book which any of us who want to wander the easy read can understand and feel comfortable with. "them and Us"

[Wayward Ho!]

I don't remember any drunken dwarves in Tolkien's books, certainly not enough to make a stereotype. As for noble elves, well the Silmarillion puts pay to that notion too. Noble dwarves and drunken elves are more commonplace. I don't think Tolkien is to blame for these stereotypes at all, rather it was the generic fantasy that came after. Gimli in the Lord of the Rings films, for instance, has more in common with a World of Warcraft dwarf than the Gimli from the book.

[white_wanderer]

If I remember my history correctly, during the medieval period these racial stereotypes asserted themselves in reality here on earth. It is only recently that the peoples of the earth have become more homogenised and almost as one.

[Talysia]

That's a good point. It may have been one of history's darker hours, but racial stereotypes were common in such an era. Oversimplification does explain a lot of it, too.

[Harleyquin]

Originally Posted by Wayward Ho!

I don't remember any drunken dwarves in Tolkien's books, certainly not enough to make a stereotype. As for noble elves, well the Silmarillion puts pay to that notion too. Noble dwarves and drunken elves are more commonplace. I don't think Tolkien is to blame for these stereotypes at all, rather it was the generic fantasy that came after. Gimli in the Lord of the Rings films, for instance, has more in common with a World of Warcraft dwarf than the Gimli from the book.

pedantic I grant you but Gimli in the book often goes on about the carousing of the dwarfs in their halls with Ale - go back to the hobbit and the dwarft there are food eating beer drinkin aplenty. Also we reference elves - at each turn the "younger" races have an awe of elves and THEY give them the "noble" inference... is we futher move on to the silmarillion Tolken correctly ads an "adult" view of the world - never forget theat the hobbit was completely designed as a childrens book so therefor needed the simplistic icons - the lord of the rings I think is fair to say has a foot in both camps of adult and child with the silm going to adult (not massively popular read btw)

Pre-Tolkien elves and such where seen as more childish in race - mostly not benign but slightly evil in their whims

[The Ace]

I think Eddings tends to actually avoid stereotypes to be honest. Belgarath's opinions of the various races were formed over seven thousand years of observation and form thumbnail sketches which an outsider would be wise to accept.
When we meet the malloreans in the Belgariad, they behave like the army of occupation they are.
The Thulls are shaped by brutal treatment by the grolims and a very real fear which dominates their entire waking lives.

Tolnedrans do have an eye for any chance of profit, Alorns do get drunk and have a punch-up at the drop of a hat, Murgos are arrogant and do despise non-murgos, and Nadraks are the best of a bad lot.

The grolims are priests who perform human sacrifices on a regular basis, a vile accuracy (Belgarath says in his biography that although he doesn't blame the grolims for instigating human sacrifice, he thinks Torak, should've stopped it).

The Arends are so caught up in a cycle of atrocity and revenge that they can think of nothing else, to their own detriment.

Even when we meet individuals of various races, while it's obvious that they are people, these thumbnail sketches are an excellent basis for understanding them.

[ghost8772]

The Stereotype doesn't come from the observations of Belgarath, Polgara, etc... but from the types taken by the eddings to people their nations. The Arends stand out the wildest as Medieval England stereotypes taken right out of Robin Hood. The Angaraks are the Epitome of an extreme caste system. (warrior-Murgo, priest-grolim, Merchant-Nadrak and Slave-Thull being the western ones, the Malloreans though have a variation within their population)

The point is the Stereotypes introduced were ones that had been chosen. Call them Ready made stereotypes if you want, People can see the Chereks as Norsemen, Vikings whichever, or the Tolnedrans as the Romans, this makes it so they wouldn't have had to spend another two books describing the finer points of the society.

[Harleyquin]

its very interesting if you listen to the Audio books - there developed in Spokane Washington and I tell you one thing your mind simply rebels at some of the accents used.

For instance:

Mandorallen - I assumed arrends as Medieval English - on the Audio book... Spanish (or comedy french depending on your point of view)
Tolnedrans - I would gridgingly call this Itallian - but comes across futher eastern than itallian
Barack - Arnold Swarzinegger

its just a little weird to hear them in different accents than you imagined them in :P

[ghost8772]

okay, the maniacal laughter is now settled down. I know EXACTLY what you mean. I grew up with Robotech on the TV, and finally found a dubbed Anime of the same story. had to get rid of it because the tall slavic captain was dubbed at elderly english.