Westerosi Honor??

[Lord_of_the_morning]

Here's a question for the masses:

Is it more honorable for someone to hold true to their oaths, no matter what the concequences, despite every logical bone in your body telling you to do otherwise? Or is it more honorable to do what you think right *despite* any oaths you had sworn?

A good example of this tricky little question is epitomized by two characters: Jaime Lannister and Barristan Selmy. Jaime is famed throughout the realm for killing King Aerys, an act which is slowly revealed to have been committed not out of malice or lust for power, but in order to end a madman's reign and save a city. Barristan Selmy, a man of oft-touted valor and honor, decided to stay true to his oath, despite the possibilty of Mad King Aerys flying off the handle and murdering countless thousands of innocent people.

So who is it that has true honor? Jaime? Barristan? Both?

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Ive discussed this particular issue before in regards to Jon so please ignore me if it makes your eyes bleed.

In every oath theres two important considerations. What do the words say, and what is the point in the oath in the first place.

The words are for the lawyers and the hair-splitters. You must adhere to the words to avoid troubling situations. The spirit of the oath is far more important. We are not mindless automatons, we are capable of making intepretations that are outside the bounds of the words we define ourselves with.

Had Jaime decided that the Mad King was a danger to himself and his nation and in fact was no longer a king in any sense of the word he would have been morally obligated to remove him for the true king, whoever that may be. You swear this oath to an office, not neccessarily to the person sitting in it. However Jaime killed the king for slightly more pragmatic reasons and as such could not be considered to be acting in an honorable fashion. There is nothing wrong with practicality so dont get me wrong. At no point did he struggle with the notions of where his loyalties lay, nor did he ponder the possibility that Aerys was a madman and not a king at this point. He didnt swear his oath to the people of Kings Landing, or Westeros, he swore to the king. Saving the city really shouldnt be a factor in a discussion like this

Barristan chose to believe his oath of loyalty was to the King and those that would come after. If this king was insane then he would maintain for the next in line. His is a longer term view and we never get to really see his personal honor put to the test with Aerys ordering him to do something insane or just plain malicious. That would be interesting.

[Lord_of_the_morning]

very good input thanks you