Help with translation into Latin please.

[Mary Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

T

A Greek man of letters goes into a tailors shop with a pair of torn trousers, which he hands to the tailor.

"Euripides?" says the tailor.

"Yes", replies the man. "Eumenides".

Regards,

Peter

Ha ha! Much funnier than that old chestnut about Pompey 'ad a rat for tea, Caesar 'ad some jam

Mary

[Thessaly]

Originally Posted by Aes

On a related note, I have yet to find any decent online resources for finding latin definitions/translations, yet I always find myself wanting to convert a phrase or two into Latin for kicks. Might any of you know of any good resources off the top of your heads?

I took medieval latin translation for one of my MA modules last year, and found the 'Words: Latin-to-English, English-to-Latin' online dictionary by William Whitaker a really useful tool to compliment my own dictionary and verb books. It contains a really large database, and whilst it's a classical latin dictionary, it actually provides many of the latin words that weren't coined until the Middle Ages, just in case you too, ever need to translate immensely dull charters. Don't worry though, it won't mess up your classical grammar (before the classicists harangue me about the awfulness of medieval latin)
http:// ablemedia.com/ctcweb/showcase/wordsonline.html

[Giovanna Clairval]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

The great thing about Latin is that it is so heavily inflected that word order is not that important.

Which one is correct?

1) Claudiam necat Tullia
2) Tullia necat Claudiam
3) Necat Claudiam Tullia
4) Necat Tullia Claudiam
5) Claudiam Tullia necat
6) Tullia Claudiam necat

[Peter Graham]

Hello

1) Claudiam necat Tullia
2) Tullia necat Claudiam
3) Necat Claudiam Tullia
4) Necat Tullia Claudiam
5) Claudiam Tullia necat
6) Tullia Claudiam necat

I am too old a warhorse to fall into a trap like this! I can do no more than refer you to my old Classics teacher for his views on the subject, but I doubt you'll get much sense out of him - he'd be well over a hundred if he is still alive.

As a lad in short trousers, it never crossed my mind to disagree with him. I was far more interested in geting the lesson over and done with so that I could go out and fail to chat up the gels from our sister-school.

Regards,

Peter

[Giovanna Clairval]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

Hello



I am too old a warhorse to fall into a trap like this!

Peter, oh Peter, you are too clever for me to confound you!

The question was:

Which of the following sentences is correct?

1) Claudiam necat Tullia
2) Tullia necat Claudiam
3) Necat Claudiam Tullia
4) Necat Tullia Claudiam
5) Claudiam Tullia necat
6) Tullia Claudiam necat

For those who hadn't Peter's teacher, the answer is:

Any of them. They all mean:

Tullia kills Claudia

In Anglish, you can't say "Claudia kills Tullia", because it is the other way round...

In Latin, the subject (Tullia) remains the subject (and the object, Claudiam, remains a clearly identified object) whatever the position in the clause. And the verb (necat) can stroll wherever he likes.

Latin is wonderful.

[Peter Graham]

Hi Giovanna,

So the old duffer was right about the word order making no odds? I knew it! Hurrah for "Tom Brown's Schooldays!"

By the way, why do you refer to English as "Anglish"? We have all manner of Jutes and Saxons in the linguistic mix, not to mention Norsemen, Celts and even your own splendid countrymen of one stripe and another.

Regards,

Peter

[Giovanna Clairval]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

So the old duffer was right about the word order making no odds? I knew it! Hurrah for "Tom Brown's Schooldays!"

Absolutely, but the genitive icase is (often) positioned before the noun it complements--with short nouns.

By the way, why do you refer to English as "Anglish"? We have all manner of Jutes and Saxons in the linguistic mix, not to mention Norsemen, Celts and even your own splendid countrymen of one stripe and another.

It's an old habit of mine . Maybe... "English" is a mispelling .
A few Chronic Scots seem to like it (don't you, Sephiroth? ).

This is nothing: I use a lot of words that do not exist, Peter, like garibolds and snidewolves, carlots and disparagus.

And, "your own splendid countrymen"? Did you mean Normans? I'm not French. I am an Italian in Paris.
We Italians are splendid indeed (thank you!) as you Anglo-Celtic-Norse-Norman-Saxons are.

Regards,

Giovanna

[Peter Graham]

Hello Giovanna

It's an old habit of mine . Maybe... "English" is a mispelling .
A few Chronic Scots seem to like it (don't you, Sephiroth? ).

Chronic Scots? They wouldn't like that definition! I'm not going to rise to the bait on "English" being a misspelling.

And, "your own splendid countrymen"? Did you mean Normans?

No - I've always regarded the Normans as little more than Vikings who developed a taste for garlic. The best that bunch of pudding-headed psychopaths managed to give us was "wardrobe". I was meaning all of the glorious, proper French loan words that pep up English - visage, couture, haute cuisine, maitre d' etc etc

We Italians are splendid indeed

You certainly are! You gave us the Roman Empire, chianti, pasta, Michelangelo, the Renaissance, Virgil, Tuscany and myriad advances in science and art. I think you shoud steer clear of beer, though.

Regards,

Peter

[Giovanna Clairval]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

I think you shoud steer clear of beer, though.

Not if it is lithebeer, that's the name of cervoise in my world...

AEnglish words are 60% of French origin-- because they did speak (their time's) French, those pudding-headed (I do like this one!) psycho-louts.

Pork is one of their imported words, as Walter Scott remarked.

But let's go back to Latinus, if you like, Peter.

Since you mentioned Virgil, let me write here the best of Latin sentences (of course, there are millions of those; it's just the best one imho)

Conticuere omnes, intentique ora tenebant.

This phrase, from the Aeneid, epitomises the elegance of Latin.

Regards,

Giovanna

Edit: I forgot! In "Chronic Scots", "Chronic" stands for "Chronicles Registered Users Who Happen to Be Scottish".
I'm a Chronic; you're a Chronic.

I post therefore I'm Chronic.

[Sephiroth]

And I'm a Chronic Scot!

And I like 'Anglish', because it seems more poetic, somehow, and because it reminds me that my first language is also a foreign language. I should be speaking Gaelic, but history had different ideas for me......

This discussion is very interesting.

This is my favourite:

Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas, sed fugit interea, fugit irreparabile tempus.

An appropriate line (also from Virgil):

Et penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos

And one I hope I can apply to myself one day:

Exegi monumentum aere perennius, non omnis moriar.

[Giovanna Clairval]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

And I'm a Chronic Scot!

Never would I have guessed that much !!!!

Exegi monumentum aere perennius, non omnis moriar.

Wonderful ode. It's not at all, imho, a triumph of arrogance as many say. It's ironic (well, not entirely, but I sense a streak of self-deprecation in it).

Horace's ode to Libitina (the XXX, if I'm not mistaken) is a great favourite of mine. I translated it for a friend, into Italian, I'm afraid. When the Muse decides so, I'll try an Anglish translation.

And this, isn't this beautiful? Virgil (Ecloga Secunda).

O formose puer, nimium ne crede colori.
Alba ligustra cadunt, vaccinia nigra leguntur.

(O beautiful child, do not overly believe in colours.
We let white flowers fall, but we gather black berries.)

It's just is a litteral translation. I should work on it.

Can you help?

[Sephiroth]

O beautiful child, place not your faith in colours,
The white flowers we let fall, but we gather the black berries.

It is very beautiful, more so in Latin, but also in English.

As for arrogance, we writers must have some arrogance, or we would never do what we do, but I, too, sense self-deprecation, and it very much reminds me of my own attitude to my work.

Oh, and I would love to see your Libitina translation.

[Giovanna Clairval]

[QUOTE=Sephiroth;931307]O beautiful child, place not your faith in colours,
The white flowers we let fall, but we gather the black berries.

It is very beautiful, more so in Latin, but also in English.
[/quote]

I like it a lot. May I use it? I insert verses at every beginning of a new act.

Just for the metric, could we take away the last "the"?

Alba ligustra cadunt, vaccinia nigra leguntur.

The white flowers we let fall, but we gather black berries.

Oh, and I would love to see your Libitina translation.

I could pester you with the Italian version , but not in this thread, which is a Latin thread.

Where's the creator of the thread? Are we off-threading too much?

[Sephiroth]

Dropping the last 'the' is something I undoubtedly would have done if I had returned to look at this again, but surprise, you beat me to it!

I would be honoured if you would use it. Although all I did was change the word order, really, apart from the second phrase....

I might struggle with the Italian!

And Chrystelia? Oh, I don't think she'll mind! () She seems to have an answer she's happy with, so.......as long as we keep to Latin we should be okay?

[Giovanna Clairval]

You asked for it. I'm posting it.

ODE XXX - Horace


Exegi monumentum aere perennius
regalique situ pyramidum altius,
quod non imber edax, non Aquilo inpotens
possit diruere aut innumerabilis
annorum series et fuga temporum. 5
Non omnis moriar multaque pars mei
uitabit Libitinam; usque ego postera
crescam laude recens, dum Capitolium
scandet cum tacita uirgine pontifex.
Dicar, qua uiolens obstrepit Aufidus 10
et qua pauper aquae Daunus agrestium
regnauit populorum, ex humili potens
princeps Aeolium carmen ad Italos
deduxisse modos. Sume superbiam
quaesitam meritis et mihi Delphica 15
lauro cinge uolens, Melpomene, comam.



Perenne il mio momumento, più del bronzo,
più alto delle piramidi regali;
né pioggia né vento riusciranno
a distruggerlo, e neppure un numero
infinito d’anni, e il fuggir delle epoche.
Non tutto di me morirà; gran parte di me
eluderà Libitina, finché vivrà la mia fama,
finché una vergine muta e un pontifex
saliranno sul Campidoglio.
Di me si dirà che, nato dove irrompe l’Aufido,
nelle terre contadine che il Dauno
governo’ per evitar la sete, ero quello che,
da umili origini giunto in alto, per primo
porto’ la poesia d’Eolia nei versi latini.
Sii orgogliosa dei miei meriti, Melpomene,
e, senza farti pregare, cingimi il capo di alloro.


Traduzione dedicata a Maruska
da Genni
Parigi, giugno 2007

Now I'll write that darped episode of the Crushing of the Albigeois...