Shadow and Claw

[I, Brian]

So I'm now reading The Book of the New Sun, starting with Shadow and Claw.

Initial impression after chapter 1 - approx 30 pages...

Nothing much has happened, am I'm personally finding the reading a little limp and prosaic. The style itself reminds me of late 19th century writers, but without the rich prose or evocative vocabulary - sort of like Arthur Machen on valium.

Use of first person is a little disorientating, but so far does nothing to draw me particularly in. I keep thinking of putting it down and reading LeGuinn instead.

There's a scene in a cemetary with grave robbers, but Severian's motivations seem confused and there's little sense of action of adrenaline. Somehow I think Gene Wolfe senses this - rather than simply have a melee in the graveyard, he has to reminisce on Severian's near drowning earlier, as if to add a little more punch to what is otherwise a fairly dull chapter.

The constant dropping of terminology I don't mind - but, again, it doesn't help draw the reading in when the tone of the writing itself seems unfocussed and lugubruious.

I'll definitely continue on, though - reviews of the story have always suggested a satisfying intellectual dimension. I've complained before that Peter F Hamilton and George R R Martin can write scenes but not tell stories - maybe Gene Wolfe is the reverese - he can't write scenes but he can tell stories...

More later.

[knivesout]

Aha! One thing you'll want to watch for, Brian, is that Severian is a classic unreliable narrator. He claims perfect memory, but may not always be perfectly truthful - something that he hints at, and even baldly admits at times.


It's best to see the whole work as a mind-game, a sort of set of puzzles concealed in narrative form.

I'd also suggest you read this piece on Wolfe for some insight into his writing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...62473-2002Apr4

[I, Brian]

I read the article and shuddered - I fear I have stepped into reading some form of post-modernist pseudo-intellectual trash.

I swear, I'll try and give the book a chance.

I've reading it as a 2 book volume, entitled "Shadow and Claw", that combines the first two books "The Shadow of the Torturer" and "The Claw of the Conciliator".

So far, and for some reason, it reminds me a little of Herman Hesse's the "Glass Bead Game" - but without the philosophical dialogues and overtones - almost to the point of it being an antithesis to it. I do find the narrative style itself to be a little off-putting, though, to the point of looking amateur - but maybe that's just from being unused to it.

Still happy to keep reading, though.


EDIT: We've just met the Chatelaine Theca in the cells, and it feels like we're suddenly into the meat of the story, and the prose seems to read tighter, too, with fewer digressive clauses attached to sentences.

[Brys]

I enjoyed these two books a lot. They weren't as good as some people have claimed, but they were still very enjoyable. I liked a lot of things - the originality of the world, the unique idea of the protagonist as a torturer, the flowing prose (if not the near-perfection many have claimed it is - I still prefer Mieville's, Moorcock's and Lieber's prose), and surprisingly, the meandering plot. I think that the idea of a story being told through memories, and the theme of how memory distorts reality etc and how it is Severian's thoughts, what he has written, and finally, something that isn't an unbiased account of what happened and doesn't claim to be, is an excellent idea. I'd have preferred a bit more direct action, and there were some scenes that were a waste of time IMO (especially visiting the botanic gardens, for the most part), and I'd have liked a slightly more in-depth look at his life during his time as a member of the torturers, but really, there was very little to complain about.

[Inkreator]

I've read all of the New Sun but can't find anything else except the Exodus From The Long Sun......

Severian's the best,and Wolf is great.The way he writes,his experiences....this is the best fantasy work I've ever read....

[BradtheImpaler]

oops

[BradtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So I'm now reading The Book of the New Sun, starting with Shadow and Claw.

Initial impression after chapter 1 - approx 30 pages...

Nothing much has happened, am I'm personally finding the reading a little limp and prosaic. The style itself reminds me of late 19th century writers, but without the rich prose or evocative vocabulary - sort of like Arthur Machen on valium.

Use of first person is a little disorientating, but so far does nothing to draw me particularly in. I keep thinking of putting it down and reading LeGuinn instead.

There's a scene in a cemetary with grave robbers, but Severian's motivations seem confused and there's little sense of action of adrenaline. Somehow I think Gene Wolfe senses this - rather than simply have a melee in the graveyard, he has to reminisce on Severian's near drowning earlier, as if to add a little more punch to what is otherwise a fairly dull chapter.

The constant dropping of terminology I don't mind - but, again, it doesn't help draw the reading in when the tone of the writing itself seems unfocussed and lugubruious.

I'll definitely continue on, though - reviews of the story have always suggested a satisfying intellectual dimension. I've complained before that Peter F Hamilton and George R R Martin can write scenes but not tell stories - maybe Gene Wolfe is the reverese - he can't write scenes but he can tell stories...

More later.

Brian, I started this one and have put it on the back burner for now. I also found it disorientating (good choice of word) but I'm not sure why.

[fifteenjugglers]

Originally Posted by BradtheImpaler

Brian, I started this one and have put it on the back burner for now. I also found it disorientating (good choice of word) but I'm not sure why.

I found the books to be the same. I came back to the series a few times with great difficulty. On my fourth try, I stuck with it and it turned out to be one of my all-time favourite books. I still don't understand most of it but it has certainly left an impression.

[Alurny]

I am just coming to the final 100 pages of "Claw" and I have found it a thouroghly enthralling experience. Thing is, there is so much to take in I forgot some of the details mentioned eariler. I think I will give it a re-read within the next year. I will move onto Sword and Citadel straight after.

The style is quite hard to keep up with at times. The detail which is packed into each chapter is huge and sometimes it is hard to take it in. I like the way he jumps to write what he feels to be adequate story. There is also;


*************************Spoiler****************** *******

a really funny line when he is talking about his job and how he does it throughout his travels. Saying: "If you delight in another persons pain and death, you will gain no satisfaction with me" well along those lines anyway. . (After the fair in the village) Makes him feel really human. Nice touch talking directly to the reader too!

[Bikewer]

I list these among my favorite books. Wolfe can be a bit dense at times; especially in his short stories. I frequently find myself asking, "just what are you trying to tell me, Gene?"
But the novels are great. These are more about narration than anything else, I'd say; creating this far-future world with it's odd atavistic elements.
Thoroughly enjoyed the Long Sun series as well.

[Wok the One Eyed]

these have been my favourite books since they came into print. i no longer read fantasy/science fiction but read severian about once a year. gene wolfe use of language is like a fine rich wine. i will be reading then have to stop to consider, and roll a phrase around in my head and mouth.

"sun drenched sky"

i stopped to savour this yesterday. severian uses it when in the mountains with little severian and the stars were visible in the sun drenched sky. i love the way GW mixes metaphors like this

[Rahl Windsong]

Wolfe definetly has his own style and that may not appeal to everyone out there, but I have to say he is one of my favorite authors.