The Final Fantasy Series Thread

[Commonmind]

Relevant to the conversation, here is an excellent 1up article on our most beloved franchise -

Future Fantasy: Final Fantasy's 20th Anniversary Retrospective, Part 4 from 1UP.com

[Lith]

True, they knew where they were going before they got into development on FF12, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been more complex as they worked on it. They were midway through development when they decided to kill Aeris, after all, which is a part of what eventually endeared the game to so many people. We'll never know now though exactly what could have happened.

Not being much of a drinker, your wine analogy is completely lost on me. Though I don't understand how many people say the game had NO story (and a lot of people on the internet do). It had at least as much story as 8 and 9. It had one, just perhaps not as intricate as 10 or 7 (which had the most intriguing and developed storyline, I'll admit).

...only that it lacked something inherent in other SE games - I'd call it polish; or rather, cohesiveness.

I think we'll have to disagree on this one- that's exactly what I feel 12 has that the others lack. It's a total package, where the others are only pieces of something that could have been utterly stellar, mixed in with stuff that doesn't make any sense or is rather stupid.

Funny how tastes work, isn't it?

FFX-2 is an interesting experiment- after all, what can you do with a story after you're done telling it? What exactly DO you do with yourself after saving the world? The game's a downbeat almost by necessity, which doesn't perhaps make it a great game, but interesting nonetheless. Spira, having freed itself from Sin and Yevon, is drunk on its own freedom, and it expresses itself in a variety of shallow activities. Having destroyed its own holy order, it wallows in profanity (not cussing, but crassness such as turning Zanarkand into a commercial enterprise), and the world becomes rather a mess of small organizations that can't compete with the glory Yevon had.

As for Yuna, she's going through a period of exploration herself. All that she was is gone, she spent her life expecting to die, and didn't, and now she doesn't know what to do with herself. So she tries this and that. She has yet to form a new meaning for her life, and there doesn't seem much in Spira that deserves selfless devotion. It all makes you wonder about what saving the world really means- they destroyed Sin and exposed Yevon as a sham, but did they make the world a better place? Now everyone's running around thinking about themselves and indulging their whims.

Whether or not the developers had this in mind when they made it, or whether they were just trying to turn a quick buck, I don't know. It kind of doesn't matter; as long as a reading is compatible with what's in the game, it's valid.

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by Jaire

Because you can buy alcohol in a game? What's it matter?

I think the alcohol buying was more in attempt to illustrate an age framework around the typical Final Fantasy character.

In truth, I do agree with that criticism in regards to the turn based role playing games in general by SquareEnix. Since franchises such as Final Fantasy has done its valued part in attracting older and female gamers to the genre, it would be nice to have the main characters a bit longer in the tooth, particularly when it comes to subplots of romance.

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Lith

True, they knew where they were going before they got into development on FF12, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been more complex as they worked on it. They were midway through development when they decided to kill Aeris, after all, which is a part of what eventually endeared the game to so many people. We'll never know now though exactly what could have happened.

Not being much of a drinker, your wine analogy is completely lost on me. Though I don't understand how many people say the game had NO story (and a lot of people on the internet do). It had at least as much story as 8 and 9. It had one, just perhaps not as intricate as 10 or 7 (which had the most intriguing and developed storyline, I'll admit).

I think we'll have to disagree on this one- that's exactly what I feel 12 has that the others lack. It's a total package, where the others are only pieces of something that could have been utterly stellar, mixed in with stuff that doesn't make any sense or is rather stupid.

Funny how tastes work, isn't it?

FFX-2 is an interesting experiment- after all, what can you do with a story after you're done telling it? What exactly DO you do with yourself after saving the world? The game's a downbeat almost by necessity, which doesn't perhaps make it a great game, but interesting nonetheless. Spira, having freed itself from Sin and Yevon, is drunk on its own freedom, and it expresses itself in a variety of shallow activities. Having destroyed its own holy order, it wallows in profanity (not cussing, but crassness such as turning Zanarkand into a commercial enterprise), and the world becomes rather a mess of small organizations that can't compete with the glory Yevon had.

As for Yuna, she's going through a period of exploration herself. All that she was is gone, she spent her life expecting to die, and didn't, and now she doesn't know what to do with herself. So she tries this and that. She has yet to form a new meaning for her life, and there doesn't seem much in Spira that deserves selfless devotion. It all makes you wonder about what saving the world really means- they destroyed Sin and exposed Yevon as a sham, but did they make the world a better place? Now everyone's running around thinking about themselves and indulging their whims.

Whether or not the developers had this in mind when they made it, or whether they were just trying to turn a quick buck, I don't know. It kind of doesn't matter; as long as a reading is compatible with what's in the game, it's valid.

Well, no one's arguing that changes aren't often made throughout the development process. I was merely pointing out that games weren't developed chronologically, as you had insinuated in your defense of XII's ending. We both seem to agree on one thing, Matsuno leaving the project directly affected the quality of the finished product.

As for the analogy, what I was trying to say was that Final Fantasy titles are usually Triple-A compared to other games on the market, and that FFXII, while not the best the series' has had to offer so far, was still a fantastic game.

I still can't bring myself to discuss X-2 at length - no offense to you or your personal experience with the game. I've tried to replay it many times with the hope that I would finally "get it." Alas, a futile effort.

[Lenny]

Slight aside - new Squenix book coming out in Japan, on the 14th. It's called CLOUD. With it comes a bonus disc, on which there are brand new trailers for both FFXIII and Versus XIII.

[Sephiroth]

Great article, Commonmind, thanks. I totally agree with its conclusion. I find myself bemused by the bewildering array of FF games about to be on offer. Quite apart from the fact that it smacks of rampant commercialism (no one should be surprised there), I, too, worry that all of this will devalue the franchise, and leave us all disillusioned. For one thing, it looks like you are going to have to own every available console in order to play them all (surprise, surprise), and then even if you are rich enough or crazy enough to do that, there's the price of each game to consider. For another thing, if they are rushing to bombard us with a million different games, it dilutes the effect that any one of them can have, even if it's truly amazing. Some people will have bought 'the other one' instead And you worry about the quality of some of the others.

Part of me is excited by Crisis Core, for example, and part of me wishes they'd never made it. I don't even have a PSP. The one that's rumoured for the mobile phone...I really don't see the point in that. And the more I think about it, the less I want to see a remake of VII.

How many books are there, Lenny, have there been many others?


There's other stuff to respond to here, but I haven't the time now since I'm going out.

[Lenny]

I haven't the faintest idea, Seph.

All I know is that the new one is coming out at the end of this week.

[Sephiroth]

Right. Heh. Does anyone know?

[Commonmind]

I think I touched upon this over-commercialization in another thread somewhere. To summarize what I said there, I really dislike the direction in which SE and other companies are going in this regard. And while I do own every current system on the market (DS Lite, PSP, PS3, 360 and Wii) the prospect of having to buy an assortment of software for each to enjoy the entirety of the experience is not my idea of a good time. I never played Chain of Memories and it rather pissed me off that I missed an aspect of the KH story because of it. I missed out based on the fact that, at the time, I had no Gameboy Advance and had no plans to buy one.

Enjoy your night on the town, Seph.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Commonmind

I never played Chain of Memories and it rather pissed me off that I missed an aspect of the KH story because of it. I missed out based on the fact that, at the time, I had no Gameboy Advance and had no plans to buy one.

Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix, PS2.

I believe it's been released in English. Basically it's KH2, with a few extra bits, AND KH:CoM in 3D.

EDIT: No English version, I'm afraid. Though Seph may be interested to know that a book was released with it.

EDIT2: In fact, you know Japanese don't you, CM? All you need, then, is a Japanese PS2.

[Sephiroth]

Hey, I'd own every console if I could afford it too.

But yes, the games are the real killer.

But what you say about Chain of Memories, that's the crux of the issue for me. I hate to think that I will miss out on a part of the experience because they chose to try and squeeze me dry, and I couldn't or wouldn't fork out the extra.

It was irritating enough when I bought the IX walkthrough (having already completed the game twice, I might add) and discovered that you had to log on to their website to get the juiciest secrets. Didn't I just pay £13 for that? I didn't have an internet connection at the time. I was furious.


Thanks. But I'm going to my parents, out of town. Nothing wild.


Cheers Lenny. Any more?


[edit] You know Japanese, CM? Damn...

*bows down to the sensei*

[Lith]

I don't mind the side projects so much, as long as the quality keeps up. What I mind is the cross-platforming, and re-releases with new stuff in every one.

Though I don't have to worry about the different consoles personally, it's really annoying to think that people have to own two or three of them to follow, say, FF12. And I'm not sure it's good for fans just jumping into the series to pick up the side stories first on other consoles they own.

And I don't like buying slightly different copies of essentially the same game. (Same goes with books, music, and movies.)

Commonmind- you didn't miss anything in CoM. Just read an online script and you're good. Seriously, 80% of the game is recap material, all the same worlds. (I'll bet you could find all the relevant scenes on YouTube, if it came to that.)

As for FFX-2, I can kind of understand that the game might be unbearable on a personal level. I had mixed feelings the first time I played it, and it was only through trying very hard to get the 100% ending that I was reconciled to the game (I've now put in over twice as much time on it as with the first one! eep!) Ironically, I still haven't reached 100%, due to an oversight in the game guide that requires me to do this and that throughout all five game chapters.

And yes, I want to buy alcohol with my game characters. Those final boss battles just aren't the same without a little liquid nerves.

Seriously though, I just want someone that can reasonably be expected to run around the world without parents and not raise eyebrows by the local populace, and whose gender is fairly readily distinguishable without consulting the game guide. For example, the first five hours of KH were spent under the impression that Sora was a very nice girl. I know Japan is their primary demographic, but our market (speaking for the US) is larger, and they'll take our money gladly enough, making us a fairly big factor in their company's well-being. But a good story still trumps that demand.

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Lenny

Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix, PS2.

I believe it's been released in English. Basically it's KH2, with a few extra bits, AND KH:CoM in 3D.

EDIT: No English version, I'm afraid. Though Seph may be interested to know that a book was released with it.

EDIT2: In fact, you know Japanese don't you, CM? All you need, then, is a Japanese PS2.

I've actually got a Japanese PS2. I imported one from NCSX before they hit the states. I'm also the first guy to grab an import SE release, including the original Final Mix, but Final Mix II was (and still is, in many cases) consistently sold out after release so it sort of made its way to the back of the list and got forgotten about. At this point I probably won't bother with it. I'm sure, out of the shoebox of KH games being thrown at us these next few years, I'll be able to reason out what I missed.

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Hey, I'd own every console if I could afford it too.

But yes, the games are the real killer.

But what you say about Chain of Memories, that's the crux of the issue for me. I hate to think that I will miss out on a part of the experience because they chose to try and squeeze me dry, and I couldn't or wouldn't fork out the extra.

It was irritating enough when I bought the IX walkthrough (having already completed the game twice, I might add) and discovered that you had to log on to their website to get the juiciest secrets. Didn't I just pay £13 for that? I didn't have an internet connection at the time. I was furious.


Thanks. But I'm going to my parents, out of town. Nothing wild.


Cheers Lenny. Any more?

We were separated at birth, you and I. I had the same frustration. Though I did have an internet connection at the time, I was still on dial-up and the Playonline page was horribly slow. It didn't help that for every entry you were trying to locate you had to input a code and wait for a new page to load.

[edit] You know Japanese, CM? Damn...

*bows down to the sensei*

I do. However, I will accept no fealty, I still need to keep my dictionary next to me when I play my imports as I have not (and likely never will) mastered the written language. I'm waiting for the day when the Japanese Ministry of Education finally decides to abolish Kanji altogether and moves permanently to the Kana system - which I believe to be a matter of time.

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Lith

Commonmind- you didn't miss anything in CoM. Just read an online script and you're good. Seriously, 80% of the game is recap material, all the same worlds. (I'll bet you could find all the relevant scenes on YouTube, if it came to that.)

As for FFX-2, I can kind of understand that the game might be unbearable on a personal level. I had mixed feelings the first time I played it, and it was only through trying very hard to get the 100% ending that I was reconciled to the game (I've now put in over twice as much time on it as with the first one! eep!) Ironically, I still haven't reached 100%, due to an oversight in the game guide that requires me to do this and that throughout all five game chapters.

And yes, I want to buy alcohol with my game characters. Those final boss battles just aren't the same without a little liquid nerves.

Seriously though, I just want someone that can reasonably be expected to run around the world without parents and not raise eyebrows by the local populace, and whose gender is fairly readily distinguishable without consulting the game guide. For example, the first five hours of KH were spent under the impression that Sora was a very nice girl. I know Japan is their primary demographic, but our market (speaking for the US) is larger, and they'll take our money gladly enough, making us a fairly big factor in their company's well-being. But a good story still trumps that demand.

Thanks Lith, I may just look it up now that you've thrown that idea at me. I have to admit, talking about it today has rekindled some of my interest.

And I have to admit, there are times I would like to be playing a character who feels more mature and whose looks are more "realistic," but I'm also unsure of whether or not SE is capable of developing that style of game, both artistically and thematically.