Sci-fi for tommorow

[Quokka]

I think I'd disagree with that Steve, for exactly the reasons you point out young people are being exposed much more to science and the direct impact it has upon themselves and the wider world.

When I was growing up a scientist was a guy in white coat tucked away in a lab somewhere with his beakers bubbling away, to some extent I think this has changed. There's a better understanding by kids that scientists can be marine biologists, archeologists or other professionals all working 'in the field'.

There may not be much positive science out there but there is certainly an increasing push to say that this is stuff that can and will affect us, even threaten the survival of us and everything we share the planet with. Its less and less possible for science to be seen as irrelevant to the 'real world'.

When you add young children's optimism to their tendancy to see things in black and white and I bet there are alot of kids growing up now that dream of being the ones to save an endagered species or find a cure for diseases.

I've almost talked myself full circle now, I do think what I've mentioned above will lead to lots of children eventually going on to study and work in a science related field but maybe the flip side to that is less interest by them in something as closely related as SF in favour of those secret passages you mentioned?

Hmm Ive really gotta start thinking these posts through, though I do still think that the overall increase in exposure to science will be good for SF in the long run.

[Steve Jordan]

Things might be different in Australia, but in the U.S., fewer and fewer young people are going into science and engineering studies in school, and only about 5% of students earn science or engineering degrees. There is a serious malaise about the sciences in the U.S., and I think it can be traced back to an attitude, propagated by the American media, that scientists are either geeks that never get laid, or people that ultimately only screw up the things they try to do, and create plagues, killer zombies, and runaway technology that will destroy us all.

I'm not saying all American SF is negative, but the overwhelming majority of it is (or it's juvenile, or both), and it doesn't leave too many young people of a mind to save or cure anything. They just want to get their moms to drive them to the mall in their SUVs.

Here's a question: How many positive SF movies of the last 10 years can you name? By positive, I mean a depiction of a bright, friendly, warm, welcoming future, or a world that will be better tomorrow. Those are the movies that inspire people to follow the sciences and enjoy SF. I'm afraid the list is woefully short.

[unclejack]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

For me, SF in television, cartoons, movies and literature all helped spur my interest in SF as an adult. However, I think it's a lot more than just having SF available to you.

Based on anecdotal evidence of my own, most people who have an appreciation of SF as an adult, had a positive opinion of science as kids. In other words, SF lovers grew up seeing science as a positive thing. Those who saw science as a negative thing did not grow up to appreciate SF, or they grew up to see SF as the same as horror/tragedy.

Being in the midst of global warming, a new energy crisis, war over oil, concerns about new diseases, old diseases, bad Chinese imports, a shrinking food supply, computer viruses, overpopulation, etc, etc... I can't say there is much positive science or SF out there today, so I don't see young people getting too inspired by science, or by SF, in the future.

On the other hand, fantasy is making a comeback, so we can expect millions (or billions) of adults that will spend their days dreaming about secret passages in the wardrobes...

I gotta dissagree with you there. Even though I did like science a little bit as a kid it wasn't really that big of an interest to me. And my interest in science fiction has only really been in the last couple years. For me the attraction to sci fi has alot to do with the endless possibilities of it. You can bascially go anywhere with science fiction and the boundries of it seem to be endless and I find that alot more interesting and intriguing that our present reality at times. But it's not really a metaphor on life for me, I just find it fascinating that's all.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by unclejack

I gotta dissagree with you there. Even though I did like science a little bit as a kid it wasn't really that big of an interest to me. And my interest in science fiction has only really been in the last couple years.

The original question was whether SF you were exposed to when young encouraged your interest in science and SF when older. So, in your case, the answer would be: No.

A great many scientists and engineers today attribute their interest in their fields in watching programs like the original Star Trek when they were young. Trek back then was about the positive possibilities of the future. But recent Trek, and other series, tend to be about ongoing wars and global catastrophes. Today most scientists, scientific institutions, and governments, are painted in a bad light (in order, foolish, greedy, and corrupt). The occasional maverick scientist that saves the day is the rare exception today, not the rule, and other than getting the significant other at the end, they rarely get anything else.

Put 2 and 2 together:
Positive SF = lots of scientists and engineers.
Negative SF = 5% scientists and engineers coming out of school.

So I daresay that if SF doesn't get more positive about the likelihood that we can make the future better, we can expect to see fewer scientists and engineers in the U.S. in the future. I emphasize that I am talking about the U.S., since other countries have other methods at their disposal to encourage more participation in science and engineering, and are not as dependent on popular media to encourage (or discourage) our youth.

[Quokka]

I was't able to find any stats for other countries so far, which is a shame as I'd be interested to know but I'm guessing your right Steve in that even if the numbers don't line up the trends probably do and I'd also assume that the growth in the computer sciences have taken students out of more traditional fields more than adding students who otherwise wouldn't have entered the sciences at all.

It's an interesting point that in the majority of cases the scientists that are put in a positive light are 'maverick' but also in the age of Star Trek you had the earlier space missions and the moon landing, that's got to have inspired people. Today there's still alot of interesting science, in some ways more relevant just less dramatic, like the mars rovers, Galileo mission etc but you really have to already have an interest in science to take more than a passing notice of it.

So what is out there today? The increasing availibility of Manga may help inspire people, particuarly in entering computer science and robotics and that may not be as far fetched as it sounds. While children were being inspired by Star Trek in the western world Astroboy in particular was inspiring children throughout Japan and Asia, with what appears to be pretty good results.

Also to bring it back on topic a bit (sorry ) even though the current SF shows and movies (Men in Black, Dr Who, Matrix, Ben10, the superhero revival etc keep in mind I'm trying to think of things that would interest kids and they're probably better examples) may not be the best advertisment for entering science they may still be effective in developing an interest in science fiction?

[Steve Jordan]

You would think they wouldn't hurt! However, the kids I speak to don't seem to be talking about science or SF, they're talking about Manga-based competition cartoons and video games (the Dragonball/Pokemon kind of thing), and fantasy (ala Harry Potter, LotR, etc). So they're being inspired, but not by science. And I'm not sure how far those interests will get them in science careers or interest in SF.

Anyway, I'm not a schoolteacher or counselor, I don't run into hundreds of kids at a time, so maybe my opinion is not worth that much. Just my observation.

I would like to see more positive SF on TV and in movies. Eureka is the kind of show that I like, because it's light-hearted, but it shows science and engineering in a (mostly) positive and (mildly) accurate light. Good for inspiring the youngsters. I can't think of too many other current shows like that, and judging by the response to my earlier post, neither has anyone else.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by unclejack

I actually have to say that I don't see that Disney has done anything that qualifies as a move in the science fiction direction. I know about Meet the Robinsons which I haven't seen yet but would like to, and I know their coming out with some sort of robot movie sometime soon that looks like ****. But ultimately Disney is so filled with fluff and humor that I doubt that they will ever present anything that is serious enough to be considered valid science fiction.

I've just seen Meet the Robinsons. Not another film starring Robert De Niro and Ben Stiller but a Disney animation involving time travel.

I have to say that it was most disappointing, not nearly as good as the usual "talking animals" fayre.

Lewis meets his own son, who whisks him away to the future where he meets a family he always dreams of having, and where the whole future society is a product of his inventions. Unfortunately, a Bowler Hatted Man has stolen one of the time machines he designed and has changed the Timeline back in the past, aided by another invention of Lewis he discarded.

It tries, but ultimately fails, to make being a Science prodigy a cool thing, while turning his friend, the wanna-be Baseball player, into the evil villain, as if there is some kind of choice between the two. It shows that 125 sets of parents did not want to adopt Lewis because he was interested in Science; only a rather weird highly-strung woman and an odd hyper-active man.

The most depressing thing of all was that rather than living up to Lewis (and apparently Walt Disney's) own motto "Keep Moving Forward", instead Lewis' life is so completely mapped out for him he seems to have no free will left at all.

[Overread]

This is the quality of Disney these days. It has died and seems to consider its audience to be mindless babies in arms. I think their last great animation was the Lion King = after that there were a few decent sequals to that and the rest can go in the bin. Its a great film to end on and they should have stopped there (note I am refering to their animations only and toy story did lift them up for a while - till Pixar realised that they did not need Disnye and went solo)

[Steve Jordan]

Just for the record, I'll point out that Disney did The Black Hole and Tron. I won't comment here on their quality, but I will say that Tron was a pretty influential movie for awhile.

[Overread]

I liked The Black Hole - they were class back then - they could make something - today its so watered down and empty

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I will say that Tron was a pretty influential movie for awhile.

I second that! But it was also a long time ago.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Overread

I liked The Black Hole - they were class back then - they could make something - today its so watered down and empty

I actually didn't like Black Hole much, I thought the premise was pretty silly... on the other hand, I was also at an age where I was having adverse reactions to the "Disney cute sidekick" thing, and that little robot (voiced by Roddy McDowell) was really cheesing me off... so my opinion may be duly discolored...

I liked the premise of Tron more (not that it didn't also have its "Disney cute sidekick," the Bit, but I dealt with it better)... sort of a Matrix precursor, though probably equally silly. But I'll accept an Alternate Universe-type story over a Bad Science story any day, so between two silly movies, I'll stick with Tron.

[MG1962]

The defining momment for me - Man landing on the Moon - I could not get enough of this outer space stuff - still cant - I have been passionate about science fiction for nearly 40 years - I still don't see any reason to stop