A quick query: Magic

[Marvolo]

Over the last three months I worked very hard to create a world that made sense around two ideas I had. The first idea was a character. The second idea was a thin plot skeleton.

I constructed a world that these two ideas worked within. I have about 25,000 words worth of notes/outlines/and character lists.

I have finished the prologue and begun the first chapter.

Now, I think its a fine idea and honestly I am probably going to go through with writing the novel no matter what. But I am curious.

So I'll do a quick query and hopefully get a feel for how people expect magic to be handled.

I came up with a very defined system of magic. But in defining how magic works, and in writing a story where magic exists, I think you immediately go into social issues.

Magic cannot exist without causing extreme civil unrest I think. So eventually, one side would win. Either the side with magic, or the side without.

In my world, the side with magic won by constructing a tower that had the power to detect them before they exhibited any magical tendencies, thus avoided the genocide being perpetrated at the time by the non-magical folk.

So, when the story starts much later, this is the world the main character goes into. I'm avoiding using names or getting too much into plot here, but here is my question.

If magic is just a matter-of-fact thing for the characters, does that turn you off? The character's aren't all-powerful because other characters have the same power. They all use their inner fire, their ardor, to force the mana around them to react to their will. Once an effect is practiced enough times, it becomes easy to create. Magicians are all noble, though to varying degrees, and everyone without magic is common. The tower detects magicians (Ardorians) when they're two. They are fosted at a noble house and then train at the tower from fifteen to twenty.

All government is magical and the highest a commoner can achieve is becoming a sworn sword for a noble family.

Commoners perform most of the tasks of the provinces that the part of the world the story takes place in. But the main characters, the ones the story is about, take magic as a matter-of-fact thing. There are tourneys where magicians duel one another for spectacle (and fear factor in the commoners). The main section of the book has the main character at the tower, learning how to effectively become a noble and magician.

The driving force in the plot is the main character himself. Why didn't the tower detect him at two?

Anyway, this isn't such a quick query.

Would such a story put anyone off? Or would it seem interesting.

Thanks,
Marv

[Aes]

The idea itself seems good, but what really matters is how well you write it. A short answer, I know, but a general theme is just a general theme. If you like the idea, then write it and see what happens.

[Thor_Doomhammer]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

In my world, the side with magic won by constructing a tower that had the power to detect them before they exhibited any magical tendencies, thus avoided the genocide being perpetrated at the time by the non-magical folk.

Maybe I'm just being dense but.....who is "them" that the tower is detecting?

[Nik]

As with anything else, some folk might have a knack for 'magic', some will be useless or 'blind' to most aspects, others will be very skilled indeed.

Think music, math, art, chess, languages...

Some of it runs in families, some just shows up, some may be triggered by illness. Not 'Wild Card' virus, but a random fever which blurs your reality and lifts your subconscious suppression of Talent...

For my 'Orloc of Robur', I had the potential run in families, but fade at puberty if un-taught...

[Lenny]

I think in both cases, the tower detects magicians.

In my world, the side with magic won by constructing a tower that had the power to detect them before they exhibited any magical tendencies, thus avoided the genocide being perpetrated at the time by the non-magical folk.

Should a magician show magical tendencies without some kind of protection, then the common folk will kill them without thought. So the tower detects these magicians before their magic flourishes and takes hold.

The tower detects magicians (Ardorians) when they're two. They are fosted at a noble house and then train at the tower from fifteen to twenty.

---

Sounds like it would be something good to read, to me.

Just out of interest, Marvolo, have you read any of the books in The Saga of Recluce series by L. E. Modesitt Jr? If you haven't you might like to. Whilst they're not the same as your idea, they follow the same general idea - magicians are picked up at a young age, become noble.

When I was reading your post I started thinking of Modesitt, you see. Not a bad thing, that - Modesitt is an extremely good writer.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Thor_Doomhammer

Maybe I'm just being dense but.....who is "them" that the tower is detecting?

Those born with the ardor. A long time ago the fear of magic carried no-magical folk to murder anyone who exhibited the tendancies associated with untrained magicians.

To Aes:

Aye, my main focus is the main character and his story. The ideas and general theme I put forth are those I created to explain to myself why he was in this certain predicament and how he would deal with it. That led me to an array of interesting peoples and cultures and religions. Now I have a big story to tell and I am more excited about this than any other idea so far, and that goes back sixteen years to when I first started trying to write stories.

To Lenny:

I haven't but I might after I write the story. One of the reasons I decided to post a vague skeleton of the idea was the worry that I might be hitting close to another book I hadn't come across yet.

But my main fear is how much is too much? I think, like the writer, it depends. J. K. Rowling had an abundance of magic in her books. George R. R. Martin has next to none. Jordan uses a lot, but I never liked his writing. Not because of an abundance of magic but because of the snail's pace.

When writing the prologue I made sure that to the viewpoint character the magic wasn't much different that booting up a computer or turning the key in the ignition to a car. It exists, is used, and the viewpoint character of the prologue knows how to use it. In chapter one, the viewpoint character is the main character and he only knows magicians from a commoner's point of view. He views them as the elite and terrifying, and his views are molded by his caregiver, though he doesn't know it yet.

But later, at the tower, the magic returns to matter-of-fact in its use in the story. The story isn't about magic, is what I'm getting at I guess. It is there and it defines the world that makes up the backround, but I just wanted to make sure I got that across clearly. But still, books with a lot of magic might not be everyone's cup of tea. So I just wanted to get a feel for what people expect, or don't expect.

[Thor_Doomhammer]

Ah... I see. Yes, the idea definitely sounds interesting. I would at the very least pick it up and read a bit.

[Lenny]

No need to worry about coming too close to another book. Whilst the idea might have made me think of Modesitt, it bears negligibile relation, if any at all, to any of his stories.

In his, for example, should a magician use magic without being at the Tower, then the common folk don't bat an eyelid. But should the magician continue this, then he is hunted down and destroyed by others (well, depends on whether he is a White or Black magician).

[chrispenycate]

I don't see why the situation would necessarily cause social conflict. Through most of human history society has been based on the inequality of its members, without anything like as much evidence to demonstrate this inequality.

Some of the longest lasting and most stable socities had well defined caste systems, and they didn't generate frequent rebellion.

The idea that all human beings are of equal worth is relatively recent, and frankly doesn't seem to give a great stability to a community; "if I'm as good as him, how come he's got more than me?"

I know it's fashionable to assume democracy is the optimum social system but for a peasant, at least, (possibly not a serf) the ability to plan ahead, assuming nothing major will change is an advantage outweighing a lot of votes and rights.

Does the magic get used for practical purposes, or is it essentially wasted on luxuries?

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

I don't see why the situation would necessarily cause social conflict. Through most of human history society has been based on the inequality of its members, without anything like as much evidence to demonstrate this inequality.

Some of the longest lasting and most stable socities had well defined caste systems, and they didn't generate frequent rebellion.

The idea that all human beings are of equal worth is relatively recent, and frankly doesn't seem to give a great stability to a community; "if I'm as good as him, how come he's got more than me?"

I know it's fashionable to assume democracy is the optimum social system but for a peasant, at least, (possibly not a serf) the ability to plan ahead, assuming nothing major will change is an advantage outweighing a lot of votes and rights.

Does the magic get used for practical purposes, or is it essentially wasted on luxuries?

The social revolution happened long ago with the magicians usurping rule from the peopl ewho are now the commoners. The tower was the instrument that led to the switch. Before the tower, magicians who lived past puberty were spread thin and fearful of the non-magical nobility who ruthlessly hunted them down, knowing that should they organize they would be a great threat to the power base. The tower was built on an island southeast of the southern tip of the continent this story begins on.

Now however, there are very few open rebellions as the magicians are the ruling class. It is essentially an oligarchy with the requirement of being a magician to elevate you to the elite. Not all magicians are created equal, those common born and fostered never garner the luxuries of the noble (i.e. the families who have birthed magicians for generations and generations), but they are still part of the elite class. Commoners, even those who rise above the general public, are still that, commoners.

The majority of magic is used the same way we use technology, to make our lives easier while making sure that our way of life isn't threatened. Therefore, enchantments abound are found in the average castle and manor, and in the event that provinces war with one another, the rabble of the common class is thrown at the other side before magicians find themselves face to face in combat.

But to get back to the short answer, the civil unrest I believe that would come fundamentally with the existance of magic would be that since it is powerful and it isn't something that can be achieved through hard work or theft/conquer, the natural end for those who don't have it would be to make sure that others who have it cannot use it against them. Thus the genocide of the earlier times and the creation of the tower to stop it.

The civil unrest inside the story itself isn't between the common and the noble, but because of the existance of a flaw in the system (the main character). All the unrest is the history of the land.

[Lith]

Well, the concept of magical energies, or mana, is one that I don't really like. I prefer my magic a little less defined, I guess, and limited more by knowledge than energy. One of the nice things about the Potter books, I think. That and personally, I prefer magic that functions as a sort of allegory. But I can't answer for whether this is a common feeling.

Write whatever you love- if you love lots of magic, put it in. I suppose an editor could tell you better if it's too much, or isn't sellable. But whatever the ultimate goal of your book (to sell or whatever), you need to write whatever interests you- otherwise how can you expect others to be interested?

[mosaix]

I agree with Chris on this. Throughout history there have been people in all societies who seemed to have magical powers - witch doctors, scientists, religious manipulators - and this doesn't seem to have lead to social unrest. Rather a hierarchy builds up instead. Those with the power, or the ability to use those with the power, become more powerful and become the leaders and the rest just go along with it.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by mosaix

I agree with Chris on this. Throughout history there have been people in all societies who seemed to have magical powers - witch doctors, scientists, religious manipulators - and this doesn't seem to have lead to social unrest. Rather a hierarchy builds up instead. Those with the power, or the ability to use those with the power, become more powerful and become the leaders and the rest just go along with it.

The difference is those who seemed to have magical powers and those who actually have it.

If your neighbor had a weapon of mass destruction, would you feel safe? Eventually you would either move away or decide to take it away. Now imagine if that weapon of mass destruction was the neighbor himself and those folk are all around. I just don't think the populace, especially since the original nobility were non-magical, would allow such power to go unchecked. They would eventually deal with it directly.

[Lith]

Peasant uprisings are pretty rare in history. The successful ones of the last century or so have been spearheaded by sympathetic, low-class nobles and non-titled but well-educated relatively wealthy (or powerful) people. Throughout most of history, the peasants have been too poor and powerless to successfully pull off a rebellion. And too uneducated.

If my neighbor had a weapon of mass destruction, first thing I'd think of is how to get one myself. That or estimate if it's even possible to destroy his, since it might be so powerful that there's no way for me to destroy it, in which case it's probably in my best interest to become close friends with said neighbor.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Lith

Peasant uprisings are pretty rare in history. The successful ones of the last century or so have been spearheaded by sympathetic, low-class nobles and non-titled but well-educated relatively wealthy (or powerful) people. Throughout most of history, the peasants have been too poor and powerless to successfully pull off a rebellion. And too uneducated.

If my neighbor had a weapon of mass destruction, first thing I'd think of is how to get one myself. That or estimate if it's even possible to destroy his, since it might be so powerful that there's no way for me to destroy it, in which case it's probably in my best interest to become close friends with said neighbor.

Aye, but keep in mind that the peasants then were the magicians. It only took one hundred of them to construct the tower. Two generations after that they were in control of everything. It was bound to happen really.