Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

NarkyTheNarkster · 19th December 2004, 03:28 AM

I really need a new book to read.. waiting for A Feast for Crows to come out is literally driving me insane. I am a huge fan of GRRM, and everyone I've read hasn't come close to reaching his standard of excellence..so if there is anyone out there that also loves GRRM, but also knows of another series that is just or almost as good could you please tell me, I would be very grateful! Thanks a lot

Blue Mythril · 19th December 2004, 05:05 AM

Well, I'm just gonna answer your title question

my answer is no.

As much as I love GRRM and his writings, I don't think he is the epitome of fantasy, but he is a bloody brilliant author. He's got another series and several novels out too, can't remember the name of the series, but the cover featured something to do with Jokers??

I think there might be a reccomendations thread about somewhere if you wanna hunt down opinions and series... I might be very wrong of course...

hodor · 19th December 2004, 10:12 AM

It's called Wild Cards I believe though I havent read them yet. Unfortunately I agree with you in the fact that I haven't read anything that I would put in league with GRRM. However, I don't know if he is the epitome of fantasy as that stretches such a huge space. I would say that I haven't read any other books that really do what his did and I too am dying to get his next.

Other series I have read since ASoIaF:

Assassin trilogy by hobb
Liveship Traders by hobb
Tawny man trilogy by hobb

The Dark Tower by King

currently working on Pillars of the Earth (which so far I highly recommend though it is a historical fiction) ABSOLUTELY perfectly written

all the hobb series were good though i liked the last the best. however you much read to first two trilogies in that order to completely appreciate the last as they are all connected.

The Dark Tower is great, though written by a horror author, it is more of a fantasy and a great series.

You might also want to try Erikson as he writes a bit dark like GRRM but I wouldnt say they have the same style.

hope that helped and if you find anything you might recommend to me I am eager to hear what it is.

NarkyTheNarkster · 19th December 2004, 07:04 PM

Thanks for the recommendations, I actually read the first book in the assassin trilogy by Robin Hobb. I thought it was decent, but nothing brilliant. I've also read the first 3 Steve Erikson books which I enjoyed immensely, almost as much as I enjoyed GRRM. But thanks for the other stuff, I'll look into it!

Lacedaemonian · 19th December 2004, 11:59 PM

Gemmell is the master of Fantasy. Feist is the epitome of Fantasy. Brooks is the special needs child of fantasy. Pratchett schools with Brooks. Eddings is the pretender to Gemmell's throne. JV Jones is the future of fantasy. Martin is beyond the parameters of fantasy. Lawhead is the mediocrity of fantasy. Eriksson is a master of fantasy. Jordan is the botched despot of fantasy. Tolkien is the father of fantasy. Lewis is the uncle. Enid Blyton is fairy grandmother....

Rane Longfox · 20th December 2004, 12:30 AM

Lacey doesn't know what he's talking about

The three authors out on their own by a country mile at the head of fantasy at the moment are Martin, Steven Erikson and China Mieville, without a shadow of a doubt. Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" is epic fantasy at its very best, but without the political intrigue of Martin's writing. Probably harder to read, but infinately more satisfying, IMHO. Mieville's "Urban Steampunk" Fantasy is almost unique, and certainly a cut above most other books out there at the moment. A brilliant writer.

knivesout · 20th December 2004, 04:59 AM

Martin is without a doubt a brilliant writer, a master of wordcraft and storycraft. However, he does not epitomise all that fantasy means to me. ER Eddison, Jack Vance and Fritz Leiber, along with Tolkien shaped the genre, to my mind, authors like Gene Wolfe and Stephen Donaldson (along with other overlooked greats from the 80s and even 90s whom I hope to read soon) brought it to maturity, and it's writers like Mieville, Jeff VanderMeer and Jeffrey Ford who are pointing forward in fantastic new directions, while the likes of Martin and Erikson are both saving the mainline heroic/epic form of fantasy from the doldrums and giving it new life.

Simply, I've realised I read fantasy for the very simple thrills of encountering magic, monsters and mayhem. So a relatively 'real' world such as Martin's isn't sufficiently soaked in pulpy goodness for a cheap=thrill freak like me.

I, Brian · 20th December 2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian

Gemmell is the master of Fantasy. Feist is the epitome of Fantasy. Brooks is the special needs child of fantasy. Pratchett schools with Brooks. Eddings is the pretender to Gemmell's throne. JV Jones is the future of fantasy. Martin is beyond the parameters of fantasy. Lawhead is the mediocrity of fantasy. Eriksson is a master of fantasy. Jordan is the botched despot of fantasy. Tolkien is the father of fantasy. Lewis is the uncle. Enid Blyton is fairy grandmother....

Lol! Good appraisal!

chartreuse · 22nd December 2004, 08:18 PM

While I agree that GRRM is some of the best fantasy I've read in a couple of decades, there is another series I enjoyed every bit as much, and that's Dan Simmons' Hyperion books. While they're a little more on the "science-fictioney" side, I think they actually cross-over at some wonderfully descriptive points in the narration and become much greater than their genre classification. Martin has done the same amazing thing with his novels, although, for my money, I'd vote for Simmons because his writing style is one-hundred times more lyrical and his characterizations are some of the best I've ever come across in any novels at any time!

Happy Holidays!

Lacedaemonian · 22nd December 2004, 10:46 PM

I have not read any China Mielville, and have not read all of Erikson's works. I have read a few hundred fantasy novels and Enid Blyton is without a shadow of a doubt the finest writer of them all. Ah Five go to Smugglers Top.....

I, Brian · 23rd December 2004, 09:00 AM

Hi chartreuse, and welcome to the chronicles network.

Buddhajeb · 26th January 2005, 07:56 PM

I think one author that is definitely being left off of this list is Guy Gavriel Kay. He is more of an historically-based fantasy writer (except for the Fionavar Tapestry), but I would rank him just as high if not higher than any author listed so far. I love GRRM, but GGK is better. If you've not read his stuff, I highly recommend it. He was actually one of the editors of the Silmarillion, and Tolkien's influence is definitely seen in his earliest works.

Shoegaze99 · 26th January 2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caladanbrood

Mieville's "Urban Steampunk" Fantasy is almost unique, and certainly a cut above most other books out there at the moment. A brilliant writer.

Agreed – an inventive, imaginative mind who can also turn a phrase – though I would suggest that China put down the thesaurus once in a while. His seeming need to drop as many obscure words as possible per page is often more distracting than impressive. He can craft some wonderful passages, but when reading “Perdido Street Station” there were moments when I wanted to mumble, “Yeah China, we get it already. Go Websters, rah rah rah.”

That said, for the time being he's still one of the great hopes for the future of fantasy.

(As far as the title question goes ... I don't think it deserves to be dignified with an answer. And I adore Martin's current series)

Faceless Woman · 20th November 2006, 10:22 AM

Guy Gavriel Kay, yes, and Katherine Kerr. Why isn't there a sub-section for the Deverry books?

TK-421 · 20th November 2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faceless Woman

Guy Gavriel Kay, yes, and Katherine Kerr. Why isn't there a sub-section for the Deverry books?

Yes, there should be (wow what a coincidence with your post...). Anyway. it does not however seem like enough people read this series.

19th December 2004, 03:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
NarkyTheNarkster Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 11	Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? I really need a new book to read.. waiting for A Feast for Crows to come out is literally driving me insane. I am a huge fan of GRRM, and everyone I've read hasn't come close to reaching his standard of excellence..so if there is anyone out there that also loves GRRM, but also knows of another series that is just or almost as good could you please tell me, I would be very grateful! Thanks a lot

19th December 2004, 05:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
Blue Mythril Stronger than steel... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Australia, New South Wales Posts: 262	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Well, I'm just gonna answer your title question my answer is no. As much as I love GRRM and his writings, I don't think he is the epitome of fantasy, but he is a bloody brilliant author. He's got another series and several novels out too, can't remember the name of the series, but the cover featured something to do with Jokers?? I think there might be a reccomendations thread about somewhere if you wanna hunt down opinions and series... I might be very wrong of course...

19th December 2004, 10:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
hodor Erikson is GOD > period Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: France Posts: 556	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? It's called Wild Cards I believe though I havent read them yet. Unfortunately I agree with you in the fact that I haven't read anything that I would put in league with GRRM. However, I don't know if he is the epitome of fantasy as that stretches such a huge space. I would say that I haven't read any other books that really do what his did and I too am dying to get his next. Other series I have read since ASoIaF: Assassin trilogy by hobb Liveship Traders by hobb Tawny man trilogy by hobb The Dark Tower by King currently working on Pillars of the Earth (which so far I highly recommend though it is a historical fiction) ABSOLUTELY perfectly written all the hobb series were good though i liked the last the best. however you much read to first two trilogies in that order to completely appreciate the last as they are all connected. The Dark Tower is great, though written by a horror author, it is more of a fantasy and a great series. You might also want to try Erikson as he writes a bit dark like GRRM but I wouldnt say they have the same style. hope that helped and if you find anything you might recommend to me I am eager to hear what it is.

19th December 2004, 07:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
NarkyTheNarkster Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 11	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Thanks for the recommendations, I actually read the first book in the assassin trilogy by Robin Hobb. I thought it was decent, but nothing brilliant. I've also read the first 3 Steve Erikson books which I enjoyed immensely, almost as much as I enjoyed GRRM. But thanks for the other stuff, I'll look into it!

19th December 2004, 11:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lacedaemonian ***Dux Bellorum*** Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,331	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Gemmell is the master of Fantasy. Feist is the epitome of Fantasy. Brooks is the special needs child of fantasy. Pratchett schools with Brooks. Eddings is the pretender to Gemmell's throne. JV Jones is the future of fantasy. Martin is beyond the parameters of fantasy. Lawhead is the mediocrity of fantasy. Eriksson is a master of fantasy. Jordan is the botched despot of fantasy. Tolkien is the father of fantasy. Lewis is the uncle. Enid Blyton is fairy grandmother....

20th December 2004, 12:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rane Longfox Pallid, Lumigoth Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Greater Manchester Posts: 3,181	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Lacey doesn't know what he's talking about The three authors out on their own by a country mile at the head of fantasy at the moment are Martin, Steven Erikson and China Mieville, without a shadow of a doubt. Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" is epic fantasy at its very best, but without the political intrigue of Martin's writing. Probably harder to read, but infinately more satisfying, IMHO. Mieville's "Urban Steampunk" Fantasy is almost unique, and certainly a cut above most other books out there at the moment. A brilliant writer.

20th December 2004, 04:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
knivesout cheap,flashy little crook Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,998	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Martin is without a doubt a brilliant writer, a master of wordcraft and storycraft. However, he does not epitomise all that fantasy means to me. ER Eddison, Jack Vance and Fritz Leiber, along with Tolkien shaped the genre, to my mind, authors like Gene Wolfe and Stephen Donaldson (along with other overlooked greats from the 80s and even 90s whom I hope to read soon) brought it to maturity, and it's writers like Mieville, Jeff VanderMeer and Jeffrey Ford who are pointing forward in fantastic new directions, while the likes of Martin and Erikson are both saving the mainline heroic/epic form of fantasy from the doldrums and giving it new life. Simply, I've realised I read fantasy for the very simple thrills of encountering magic, monsters and mayhem. So a relatively 'real' world such as Martin's isn't sufficiently soaked in pulpy goodness for a cheap=thrill freak like me.

22nd December 2004, 08:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
chartreuse Those damn slithy toves! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? While I agree that GRRM is some of the best fantasy I've read in a couple of decades, there is another series I enjoyed every bit as much, and that's Dan Simmons' Hyperion books. While they're a little more on the "science-fictioney" side, I think they actually cross-over at some wonderfully descriptive points in the narration and become much greater than their genre classification. Martin has done the same amazing thing with his novels, although, for my money, I'd vote for Simmons because his writing style is one-hundred times more lyrical and his characterizations are some of the best I've ever come across in any novels at any time! Happy Holidays!

22nd December 2004, 10:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lacedaemonian ***Dux Bellorum*** Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,331	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? I have not read any China Mielville, and have not read all of Erikson's works. I have read a few hundred fantasy novels and Enid Blyton is without a shadow of a doubt the finest writer of them all. Ah Five go to Smugglers Top.....

23rd December 2004, 09:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,354	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Hi chartreuse, and welcome to the chronicles network.

26th January 2005, 07:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Buddhajeb Buddy Christ to everyone Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? I think one author that is definitely being left off of this list is Guy Gavriel Kay. He is more of an historically-based fantasy writer (except for the Fionavar Tapestry), but I would rank him just as high if not higher than any author listed so far. I love GRRM, but GGK is better. If you've not read his stuff, I highly recommend it. He was actually one of the editors of the Silmarillion, and Tolkien's influence is definitely seen in his earliest works.

20th November 2006, 10:22 AM	#14 (permalink)
Faceless Woman Pet Nymeria. Now die. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 398	Re: Is GRRM the epitome of Fantasy?? Guy Gavriel Kay, yes, and Katherine Kerr. Why isn't there a sub-section for the Deverry books?

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