Jazz

[Space Monkey]

A conversation about Jazz is needed. I saw the odd snippet on people's desert island selections and I know some other people here appreciate it. Jazz is the most underappreciated music by the young, because of the connotations it has with seniors and the era from which it came.

Interesting facts for anybody who loves metal but hates jazz: The most technically brilliant metal music I heard was from Cynic, a tampa band that initially started out on Death's Human album as guest musicians. This album is unbelievable, but Cynic's album, Focus, is technical death metal written in a jazz structure with regards to timescales and complexity, mood and orchestration. Best album I ever heard for musicianship.

ALL were Jazz virtuosos from a jazz background, and I know at least 2 of the members, Paul Masvidal and the drummer, Sean Reinart went onto more jazz/fusion after the band split.

Jazz is arguably the most complex structure of music orchestration in existence. Jazz/stride piano is as hard as piano playing gets, the chords used in jazz are usually the weirdest hardest stretches on the fingers for guitarists, and to cap it off, the one-chord metallicettes who think a guitar only consists of a low E string are usually the first to dismiss it with a mocking sneer.

I have to ask Little Miss Attitude, respectfully of course, what is it about Bobby Darin's Mack the Knife you like? I mean, of all the versions of that song throughout recorded history, I thought Darin's was the flattest and most lifeless. It's just something about his voice that makes me frown; can't pinpoint it except, perhaps to say that he's too 'clean' sounding, for want of a better word. I like roughness and inelloquence, like Louie or Billie Holliday.
I also really like the 'stage jokes', the spoken parts in jazz songs like the banter between Louie and Tyree Glen.

Dammit I don't know what I want to say, somebody just please indulge me in a jazz convo!!!!!!

[Leto]

The problem with jazz, IMHO, is simply lack of info and visibility. Except from the old and famous ones, I haven't got a clue on which is good and whch is bad. any advice would be appreciated.

[Foxbat]

My brother's into jazz and plays Sax but I've always preferred Blues. In saying that, however, I quite like people like John Coltrane (Trane's Blues is one of my favourites) but some of it is just too 'out there' for me.

I don't know if 'complicated' equals good - some of the finest songs ever written were done using the simplest of chords and arrangements.

Still, I'm quite partial to an augmented/diminished/suspended/minor 7th/add9 myself

[mzarynn]

Leto, the Blues is where jazz began. The introduction of African rhythms to European harmonies helped create the African American works songs and spirtuals which lead to the Blues. Jazz just became a term to describe everything from the Blues to Vaudeville/Ragtime styles. The "out there" kind of jazz is only one style. It's similar to the term "Rock" which can describe all different types of music; from the Beatles to Metallica.

I'm personally crazy about Swing music. I cannot help but dance (even if it's just toe tapping) when I hear it. I've infected my students with Jazz. Both of my schools have a couple of jazzy Christmas tunes and you bet I make 'em dance. They love it! Last year the 4th and 5th graders did a musical called We Haz Jazz. Now they are quick to identify any piece of music that is slightly jazzy.

I wish I had more experience with Jazz. But I'm more than happy to discuss what I do know and love about it.

[knivesout]

Yearghhhh Cynic \m/ (I was just listening to them yesterday, oddly).


On the topic of jazz though, I have a number of friends who listen to a whole lot of jazz and I've picked up a bit here and there. I mostly like Miles Davis and John Coltrane - everything they've done seems like a sonic revolution in its own right. Later 'modern jazz' including Weather Report often seems washed-out to me in contrast, though I'm no expert at all. I like listening to older artists like Coleman Hawkins and Duke Ellington as well, in that I always enjoy their music when one particular pub I go to plays it, but jazz vocalists like Ella Fitzgerald and the likes never did appeal to me much.

So, there are certain kinds of jazz I enjoy, but I'll readily admit that it isn't my first choice of musical poison.

[Leto]

Well, except some tapes of Duke Ellington and Chet Baker, and a CD of Quncy Jones, I don't have anything labelled jazz home. Contrary to rock (from Jerry lee Lewis and Chuck Berry to Iron Maiden and Green day) or classical mostly Beethoven and Bach)
So, any reccomendation will be appreciated.

[Space Monkey]

My favourite stuff is crazed eclectic improvisation, where you get these whacked out musicians/arrangers taking familiar songs and making them totally unique. I heard an unbelievable series of arrangements one night on the way back from London in the car, a show that lasted about an hour, of this horn-led band with musicians that were so in their own world that they only just held together, but they DID hold together and it was goosebump music. I wish I'd had a pen and pad at the time because I didn't remember the name of the orchestra, but they did renditions of stuff like Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, with the vocalist screeching out the famous sweeping clarinet line that opens the piece while the pianist beat the crap out of the keys as though he was dying, but in the relevant key and in perfectly timed pauses from the others. (Is it clarinet? I googled the score to check but they have a full woodwind section, so I couldn't tell.)

Most of everything they did consisted of improvisation barely held together by either the bass or drums, maybe the original timescale - I don't even know if they were working from sheet music, and it kicked my ass all the way home. I'd take a chance on most modern jazz, but there are radio shows out there where you can catch snippets of the coolest stuff and find out what you love from that.
When you hear the best improvisation, it almoist feels like the group is a psychic network, knowing each other so well that they all slot right in together, anticipating every single move the other musicians are going to make. It's amazing.

Beauty of classic jazz is that it's so cheap to buy too, but for the modern and abstract stuff you might end up paying regular prices for the CD's.
But if you do web searches, most aspiring music acts of any genre have downloads so you can sample before you buy.

[BandSmurf]

I like jazz. But I must admit, there is some I like better than others. Oddly enough, seeing as I'm a sax player (in college, music ed major) I prefer to listen to trumpet soloists like Miles Davis, and I can't solo in jazz worth a damn personally. But I still love to listen. I love both the soloists like Davis and Ella, but I also love the big band sound. I have problems with the stuff that gets too technical, which is probably why I like trumpet players better than sax. Too many jazz saxophonists simply run through some jazz scales when it comes to improve and forget they are playing a song, with a melody, at least that's what it sounds like to me. I like to hear a melody, even when somebody's improving. Eh, that's me though. I'm glad to see this thread here!

~BandSmurf

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by BandSmurf

Too many jazz saxophonists simply run through some jazz scales when it comes to improve and forget they are playing a song, with a melody, at least that's what it sounds like to me
~BandSmurf

My brother and I argue about this all the time

On the subject of swing (is that a subset of jazz?) I'm also a big fan - particluarly the legendary Django Reinhardt and an Argentinian guy called Oscar Alleman. I can listen to their stuff all day long.

[rtroxel]

I've developed an interest in Jazz over the past three years.

My current favorites are John Coltrane and Charles Mingus, with Miles Davis in there somewhere.

Mingus was an extraordinary bass player and composer. (I recommend starting with the Ken Burns Jazz CD series, if you haven't heard him.)

I like almost anything by Coltrane, but surprisingly I didn't like "A Love Supreme.", which supposedly is his masterpiece. I listened to the CD several times, trying to hear what others have heard, but it just wasn't there for me.

I played a tape of Davis' "Kind of Blue" from a tape in my car all last summer.

[WorldRuler]

I more listen to rock, but I' ma big fan of Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, and Maynard Ferguson.

In fact... I'm gonna go listen to some now.

[Blue Mythril]

The problem with jazz, IMHO, is simply lack of info and visibility.

Thats also part of the culture too though. I think Jazz is one of those genres that would lose a lot if it became mainstream, besides the fact that it is also really not suited to mainstream either. Besides, can you imaging the complaints from jazz fans?

I thank my stars my Mum got me into jazz, classical and swing back when I was a tiny tot. Some jazz is too much for me, but on the most part I love it. I also find it grows on you. At first I had a lot of trouble with Herbie Hancock, but my appreciation definately grew.

Coltrane and Davis are classics

When I think about it, I love so much about the jazz scene, from fast tempo improvisation to mellow pieces, to the low profile, to seedy jazz bars, to fresh cafes... Incredible skill and a wide range of instruments... Its also constantly adapting, evolving and open to experiments. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't.
Though I must admit my interest was revived when I started dating a jazz pianist, especially in improvisation which is his speciality I love just listening to him play.

Are there any Keith Jarrett? He's someone I hadn't heard of until recently. There's so much talent out there that you inadvertantly stumble across in the Jazz scene... but thats jazz for you.

[polymorphikos]

I like jazz. Charles Mingus would be my current favourite and I've acrued a small collection of his and Miles Davis' albums. I wouldn't even pretend to know a lot about it, but I listen to a fair bit of it anyway - as a result I often find myself staring blankly at the rack in the record shop for half an hour, trying to divine which of the people I've never heard will be any good. The internet helps.

Laurence Pike is a modern fellow working at opposite ends of the jazz spectrum who is connected to two very fine outfits. He drums for Pivot, which is crazy spacerock jazz (or so I've been told by the people who specialise in defining these things, although there is a very rocking cover of "Woman" that will probably play through that link), and for Triosk, which is abstract and meandering and very beautiful experimental music. I am also fond of The Monstrous Now for some reason.

Also Richard Pike's MySpace has Incidental Backcloth on it. This is probably one of the best songs of last year!

[ScottSF]

Wow, some of these posts are years old. I don't know if any of these people are around by I was pleasantly surprised to see Charles Mingus mentioned more than once. So, has anyone read his book? The one he wrote: "Beneath the Underdog"? Or heard some of his poetry?

I agree that Jazz is underappreciated. Especially in the US. Europe seems to be a better audience on average. I honestly played it for a long time in school before I really started to like it. And of course there are movements like this "smooth jazz" thing that I detest. One of my favorite living artists is Steve Colman but it's takes a rare mood for me to listen to his stuff but when the mood strikes it's like riding a lopsided merrygoround but instead of horses there are neon blue orcas twisting under a flickering moon on a giant pancake.

[ScottSF]

another interesting note. Both the terms Rock & Roll and Rhythm and Blues are found in the Jazz lexicon.