Is Discworld getter...darker?

[Leto]

Originally Posted by Princess Ivy

Sorry to jump on you babe. I'm just tired of getting snide remarks because of my reading material. Meh, at least i can and do read!
sorry, feeling a bit grumbly today. just found out some bad news about my studies. i think i'll go and rant a bit
*stalks off muttering*

That's Ok, I'm quite tired myself and have difficulty to write in french, so my english musn't be so good either.

Never mind about the comments on your read, at least these ones won't try to steal your book.

[Princess Ivy]

unfortunatly i don't write sci-fi or fantasy. i love reading it, but i prefer to set my ownstories in the real world. unlike pratchett and adams, i'm not a genius for pointing out the frailties of 21century society by using clever satirical parallels. i have to be heavy handed and real. so they might very well to to steal one of my books. meh.

[Leto]

Originally Posted by Princess Ivy

unfortunatly i don't write sci-fi or fantasy. i love reading it, but i prefer to set my ownstories in the real world. unlike pratchett and adams, i'm not a genius for pointing out the frailties of 21century society by using clever satirical parallels. i have to be heavy handed and real. so they might very well to to steal one of my books. meh.

I don't too. I'm currently working on a test of an MP3 player and an article about the economy of MMORPG (with the help of AmonRa and saf1). Quite interesting but not as fun as a good sci-fi or fantasy novel.

But I'd love to read some of your stories, princess.

[Princess Ivy]

most of my stuff is either 'in progress' (my novel) or with editors. which is the reason that i don't post it in the crits forum. darn copyrite. Hopefully i'll be getting some positive answers soon though. then i'll put up the mag details. hehe

[The Ace]

It is getting slightly darker, but he has never lost either his humour or his abilty to poke fun (look at Jingo, written around the time of the first gulf war). I love his definition as "A crime so big there's no law against it." And Achmed's litany of reasons for war really struck a chord. THERE SHOULD BE A LAW AGAINST PUTTING SUGAR ON PORRIDGE.

[Bup]

Originally Posted by dwndrgn

Dirk Gently is Adams, not Pratchett

But in all seriousness, I think that Pratchett is using his later Discworld books to outline things he finds wrong in the real world. They've always had connections to real life situations but now he seems to be targeting those things that are clearly wrong in our world today. It is much easier to take when done with a humorous tone.

I agree.
Though to take it a step further, it appears to me as if where he could previously avoid to get dragged into the wrongs and absurdness of the world and rather detail it and laugh at it- a little more of this world's grit has stuck to him now. As such, he has , at least to me, lost a bit of what made / makes me laugh. I read the Discworld books as much to laugh as to get that feeling that the world is pretty funky and it is best not to take it too seriously- as well as become aware/ be reminded what can really go wrong with it. Lately, most things seem wrong

[alicebandassassin]

hay ho darker only if you foget to turn the lights on its funny and good to read .there have always been layers to the books amed at different readers they are just more pronounced in some later books

[aarti]

I agree that his books are tackling more and more serious topics (look at Thud!, after all). But he still manages to do it with a great deal of humor and a storyline.

And really, no matter WHAT is happening, I just start giggling every time I see the TELLTALE CAPITALS that tell you Death is making an appearance!

[bookaholic]

Yeah it's getting darker, but it's still as good and funny and totaly Pratchettish!

[Panic_Fire]

Hmm i heard this too,
that his books are becoming darker.

so i decided to reread all my pratchett books (which are all the discworld books released except Last Hero) and i found that, it's not as such that the stories get darker, i didn't think Monstrous Regiment, or The Truth, or Going Postal are dark books, also Thief of Time didn't strike me as Dark either, it''s just that the books get a little more mature, i do agree.

also it is to be said that, you get to know your characters better and better. for example, koom valley is mentioned in: Men at Arms, and in Thud! it is the main subject. while men at arms is not so mature yet, and Thud! is a lot more mature. it is also that the characters have matured. if you take guards! Guards! and you see how for instance, Samual Vimes thinks of the world and how Havelock Vetinary thinks of Samual Vimes, and then each book those relations shift, and how the people think of themselves and others, shifts too.

in Guards! Guards! Vimes is concidered a no-good loser, while in Thud! he is concidered the second most powerfull man in ankh-morpork with connections in uberwald too.

So my conclusion is basically, the stories haven't gotten any darker, the stories have matured, and so have the characters in them.

[Thadlerian]

Originally Posted by Panic_Fire

so i decided to reread all my pratchett books

A shelf full of Discworld books, and the time to do a complete reread... mmm... oh well.

So my conclusion is basically, the stories haven't gotten any darker, the stories have matured, and so have the characters in them.

The initial question of the thread was "Is Discworld getting darker?", and intuitively, my answer to that would be "yes", considering the serious content of recent books. But when you put it like that, I can't help but agree. The DW books are far from dark, when you think about it. I've yet to see one that doesn't have a happy ending for the heroes: Most problems solved, villains conveniently dead, no permanent damage to bodies (except Vetinari's bullet wound) or feelings (the way the "Nobby's girlfriend" affair in Thud! turns out in the end is an example of this). Sometimes, the books feel nearly fluffy the way it all ends up well.

But, Panic_Fire, when you say "all the discworld books released except Last Hero", does that include the YA Tiffany Aching series? I would argue that these books, at least, are a little darker than the main series. People die in non-humorous ways, and the tone itself is overall serious, with humour being the exception rather than the rule.

And then there's, of course, Night Watch. But on the overall, yeah, I agree, they've just matured, they've not necessarily got darker.

Sometimes I wish they would be, though. Granny Weatherwax is not the only immortal/invincible characer. Night Watch felt dark and gritty, and I loved it for that. But then again, perhaps we need some happy endings, now and then. God knows, with writers like Steven Erikson, George R. R. Martin and China Miéville all over the place, there'll be no shortage of death and darkness.

Among his ideas, Terry Pratchett offers us hope. It takes a little something to keep writing like that in a world in which proud nihilism is the great new fad in storytelling.

[Bup]

I don't know about 'matured'. To a certain extent, I agree, but what overshadows it, at least to me, is a certain loss of faith in humanity. It's like Pratchett has ..sort of revised his view on the world, and people in general, to fit someone a bit more cynical, a bit more harsh.

I mean, the point of his books are often accurate observations of humanity and how the world works, and they have become a little blacker lately. More serious. Like the subject matters at hand get to him a little bit more.

This doesn't always mean that something/one has become more mature, but there is that as well, in parallell.

They still make me laugh (and sometimes think) consistently though. Thud! I really liked, compared with Night's Watch and Monstrous Regiment. I don't like the Vimes character much, but he treated the idea of racism well.

[Allegra]

Originally Posted by Thadlerian

Among his ideas, Terry Pratchett offers us hope. It takes a little something to keep writing like that in a world in which proud nihilism is the great new fad in storytelling.

Thaldlerian, have you read Kurt Vonnegut? If not, I'd like to recommend all of his books - S.F. and non fiction. Kurt Vonnegut does not offer hope, but despair, powerful, heart-wrenching despair. I love them both for their incredible ability to use fantasy or science fiction as means to express their insightful thought provoking views about the real world, humanity and human nature, though their satire and humor are very different.

[Thadlerian]

Originally Posted by Allegra

Thaldlerian, have you read Kurt Vonnegut? If not, I'd like to recommend all of his books - S.F. and non fiction. Kurt Vonnegut does not offer hope, but despair, powerful, heart-wrenching despair. I love them both for their incredible ability to use fantasy or science fiction as means to express their insightful thought provoking views about the real world, humanity and human nature, though their satire and humor are very different.

So I have
The Sirens of Titan is my favourite Science Fiction novel, with several other Vonneguts close behind (Timequake, Cat's Cradle, etc). All of them very dark and pessimistic indeed...

It might be quite possible that I forgot about Vonnegut when writing my previous post, but his kind was anyway not what I thought of when referring to "proud nihilism". I was thinking more along the lines of new, up-and-coming fantasy in which civilians die by the thousands, at generally high levels of goryness, very graphically, seemingly more for the sake of realism. Whereas Vonnegut's tragic fates are more on the personal, emotional plane (even if it's the end of the world, like Cat's Cradle); he's being ironic, and making a point.

[Allegra]

I know you weren't thinking about Vonnegut when referring to 'proud nihilism', it's not possible Yeah, K.V is much darker than T.P. While both of them can frequently crack you up, Vonnegut makes you want to cry at the same time. His tragicomic is powerful. Discworld are fun and mild and lighthearted in comparison. I need them both. Kurt Vonnegut's latest non-fiction A Man Without A Country is fabulous. I wish he can keep writing for another 10 years (he wants to sue Marlboro for not killing him yet). Love the man.