Another 'hello' thread

[Teatime]

Hi all,

I was directed to this forum from a usenet group, looks pretty interesting and helpful.

This week I finished the first draft of a 110,000 word novel, it's kind of post-apocalyptic horror/sci-fi/fantasy. I just thought I'd say hello really!

I'm based in London, and haven't really given much thought to how I get published and so on, but it's something I'll have to get into in time. My main worry, I guess, is the genre - post apocalyptic isn't your traditional fantasy fare. However, I like to think of it as a strength - certainly it was what I felt I should write about, and that was really all there was to it So - yeah, I worry, but try to beat that worry over the head with a stick at the same time. The stick's been winning for the past three months.

It's nice to see a few agents and publishers on this forum.

Ok, I do have one general question. Am I right in thinking the best approach is to try to get an agent first rather than go straight to publishers, for a first time writer? The general impression I get is that lots of publishers won't accept 'unsolicited' material.

I'm UK based, as I said, is the situation different between the US and UK?

Thanks,

Jon

[Paramour]

Jon,

Welcome! I'm new too. I've been dabbling in the publishing slush for a bit with my first novel. I've decided to go without an agent and have found that if you search cleverly, you can find publishing houses that will accept unsolicited material. Notably, DAW and TOR publishing houses, since they are the biggest that accept unsolicited (actually, I think those two are some of the biggest fantasy takers in the business).

Some places wont take you into consideration without an agent (penguin, random house -minus some imprints, hapercollins). Agents can be wonderful assets to any writer looking to get published. They have contacts and loads of good advice. You've got to be exceptionally careful about scams, though. Make sure that if you begin soliciting for an agent, you look up their qualifications, references, anything you can about them.

Good luck!!
<3 Paramour

[Havlen]

I think it is definitely best to start with agents. There are some publishers out there that accept unsolicited material, and there are ways to get solicited without an agent, but I think you decrease your chances when going that route.

First, a publisher has two standard ways of getting new material: Through agented submissions and through the 'slush' pile. The chances of finding something in the slush pile is roughly 1 in 1,000. Thinking in terms of an editor, this means going through the slush pile is checking through a haystack for a needle when you have another stack (agented submissions) with a *lot* less hay in it. (More than likely it will be a junior agent or intern going through that stack anyways.)

Compare this to an agent whose main source of new writers will be their slush pile, and there is a considerable difference in the mindset of the person reading the submission. While the editor might be thinking of it as busy work that must be done but won't yield anything, an agent might be thinking, 'Gee, i hope I find something good'.

Second, an agent is going to be able to pitch a manuscript with more success than an author because (1) editors give them higher priority and more attention and (2) they have more experience making pitches. Not to mention they will be able to submit to publishers who only accept submissions from agents.

Third, if you go through all the available publishers and then try to find an agent you are going to have a tougher time of it. An agent might not want to take on a manuscript that has already been submitted to half the publishers.

Basically, I would suggest being patient. I know, tough thing to do, and something I'm not always good at. But if you start with agents you can always submit to publishers later -- you aren't closing that door -- whereas you might be closing some doors if you start with publishers.

[Paramour]

Originally Posted by Havlen

Third, if you go through all the available publishers and then try to find an agent you are going to have a tougher time of it. An agent might not want to take on a manuscript that has already been submitted to half the publishers.

Havlen makes a great point. Agents usually earn 10% as their commission from your profits (That's the way it should be, no out of pocket fees!!). They have to exclude this, of course, if you manage to find yourself a contract without their aid. And if you've already solicited to anyone who will take you, especially the big ones, then you're narrowing the agents field to work in with less chance for pay.

Originally Posted by Havlen

First, a publisher has two standard ways of getting new material: Through agented submissions and through the 'slush' pile. The chances of finding something in the slush pile is roughly 1 in 1,000. Thinking in terms of an editor, this means going through the slush pile is checking through a haystack for a needle when you have another stack (agented submissions) with a *lot* less hay in it. (More than likely it will be a junior agent or intern going through that stack anyways.)

Oh, the slush pile! I think it's a wonderful thing actually. Though, I could see why publishing houses find it so daunting. Back on track now. Also, with agented submissions, the work tends to be cleaner, closer to the publishing stage. My thought on that is because agents wont stick their reputations on the line with a grammatical-error ridden, wrongly formatted manuscript. A few of the agents I querried wouldn't even consider seeing my manuscript unless it was proffessionally line edited (Which would have run between 700-1,500+ american dollars).

[Havlen]

Originally Posted by Paramour

Havlen makes a great point. Agents usually earn 10% as their commission from your profits (That's the way it should be, no out of pocket fees!!). They have to exclude this, of course, if you manage to find yourself a contract without their aid. And if you've already solicited to anyone who will take you, especially the big ones, then you're narrowing the agents field to work in with less chance for pay.

Actually, the standard commission is 15% Domestic/20% Foreign. (I believe foreign really means anything requiring a subagent.) And excluding the commission if you manage to find a contract without their aid is not always correct. There are many people who get a contract and *then* find an agent.

If you have an agent, get a contract on your own, and don't want their help in negotiating it, then (depending on what you signed with your agent) the commission might be excluded -- though the only reason I can think of for someone still submitting the manuscript when they have an agent is if the agent had gone through all the standard publishers already.

Originally Posted by Paramour

Oh, the slush pile! I think it's a wonderful thing actually. Though, I could see why publishing houses find it so daunting. Back on track now. Also, with agented submissions, the work tends to be cleaner, closer to the publishing stage. My thought on that is because agents wont stick their reputations on the line with a grammatical-error ridden, wrongly formatted manuscript. A few of the agents I querried wouldn't even consider seeing my manuscript unless it was proffessionally line edited (Which would have run between 700-1,500+ american dollars).

Many agents will work with the writer to make the manuscript better (both in story and in writing). Odd that you would have some that suggested getting it professionally line-edited though. Except for the scam of sending you to a specific editor, I don't think that is very common. But it could be -- I'm not a big expert on these things -- but it seems to me if an agent thought something was poorly written they'd simply pass.

[JFLewis]

Hi, Teatime!

Congrats on finishing your novel. I wouldn’t worry about the commercial potential of post-apocalyptic fiction. Have you checked out S.M. Stirling's Emberverse series? The first book is called DIES THE FIRE. You could also look at Stephen King's THE STAND or CELL. All three novels are examples of best-selling fiction which deals with post-apocalyptic themes.

As for your question about agents:

I would certainly encourage you to find an agent first. Unless you have time to go to conventions and make your own industry contacts, an agent is the best way to get your work to the major publishers which don't accept unagented submissions.

Your average agent will take a 15% commission, but if you have the right agent, it’s worth it. I would suggest that you take a look at Preditors and Editors and read through the information about what an agent is and tips on how not to get scammed.

I second a lot of what Havlen said. A good agent can change a waiting period of several months into a matter of weeks. A good agent will know which editors are looking for the kind of fiction you’re writing and be able to touch base with them directly.

Hope that helps,

Jeremy

[JFLewis]

I tried a different post, but must have doen something wrong since it didn't appear. The gist of the response was this:

Get an agent first and before getting an agent, check out the Preditors and Editors site championed by AC Crispin and Victoria Strauss.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by Paramour

A few of the agents I querried wouldn't even consider seeing my manuscript unless it was proffessionally line edited (Which would have run between 700-1,500+ american dollars).

I'd be very cautious with agents who make these types of requests. It's often a red flag signaling the writer should run the other way quickly.