Damn you Lucas!!!

[C Of K]

Make the bracket at the end of your quote look like this [/quote]

EDIT: awww, man! The first half of my "internet code 'quote' explanation" is the last post on the first page.

[Huttman]

It's because of all the typing I did on the previous page! That's cool and very kind of you to take the time to explain that, I will use it as a guide next time I respond to multiple quotes. Oh, and I think everyone and everything (topic) is related somewhere down the line, just have to connect the dots, you know, Midi-chlorians, the force, the great mysteries, hot dog vendors. Thank you Bjorn, (sounds Swedish), mines Norman. Chow for now...

[Feordel]

The Midi-chlorians are amazing. It explains how Jedi have different amounts of power, without them all Jedi wouldn't be unique. And plus, Darth Plageus could manipulate them and create life. Anakin had no father, and his midichlorian count was higher than Yoda's. Created?
x

[C Of K]

Some people like them and some don't. Either way is understandable. However, I did know that jedi had different levels of power before Episode 1 came out. Midi-chlorians did draw together George Lucas' explanation of different power levels, but I never thought he had to explain it so deeply. He didn't in the original trilogy.

Back then they got away with famous quotes like "I was amazed at how strong the force was with him." --Ben Kenobi RotJ

That quote denotes a difference in power between individual jedi. Personally, putting a number to it, like "Over Twenty Thousand!" sort of killed the magic for me. It was something I never wanted to wonder about

[Huttman]

I've been sitting here thinking about this and have come to the conclusion that it's not what you've got but how you use it. Let's assume Anakin and Yoda, Y-O-D-A Yoda, has some of the highest of the Midi-Chlorian count out there, it was Qui-Gon that found a way to immortality and it was Luke that defeated his father in battle and won him back away from the dark side. If one takes the literal count of Midi-Chlorians to say how powerful a Jedi can become, then maybe there is a point being over-looked here.

[C Of K]

In a way, that it was overlooked is one of the themes in the new trilogy. Anakin pretty much considered himself better than any of the other jedi because he was so much more powerful, which is in direct relation to his Midi-Chlorian count compared to theirs.

It contributed to his fall—strongly.

you might say they all missed the point.

[Huttman]

Yes, I agree, there were a lot of points missed. Anakin showed up on the galactic scene at a very bad time. The Jedi were apathetic and set in their ways, the government was soft and corrupt, and there was some evil guy plotting and plotting. In TPM, Anakin showed potential for arrogance with 'I'm the only human that can do it', and also anger by beating up young Greedo. He also showed incredible kindness and thoughtfulness. He was encouraged and taught very well by Qui-Gon, but was coldly disregarded by the Jedi council right from the start - especially by Mace. I think his dislike and distrust for them was justified, he just chose the wrong solutions. I know things would have gone so much better in his life if Qui-Gon were his instructor for his entire training. Qui-Gon saw through the council's bad decision making and always budded heads with them and outright disobeyed them to do what was right. That is why Qui-Gon is my favorite Jedi. Without him though, Anakin was ripe for corruption himself, being surrounded by ones who treated him like the red headed step-child. So I think his high Midi-Chlorian count was somehow his justification of his actions, not neccisarily the cause of his fall.

[Feordel]

I think the reason that they were included was for Darth Plageus, possibly creating Anakin. It's a big loose end about anakin's father, and we are given all sorts of clues, and plus they would not be in the original trilogy because it is not the golden age of the Jedi. In the new trilogy, we see hundreds of jedi being trained and we learn more about, midichlorians being one thing.

[C Of K]

The biggest reason Midi-Chlorians were included, I think, is probably because George Lucas wanted to include them.

Had they been excluded few (relatively) would have questioned Darth Plagueis' ability to create life, any more than they would Palpatine's ability to shoot lightning from his finger tips. (Anyone who would question it is probably already questioning countless different aspects of the saga. So it would hardly matter.)

We already knew that life creates the force from watching the original trilogy. It would then be conceivable/believable, that certain secrets would also allow the reverse to be true. Of course, even with the addition of Mid-Chlorians, these secrets are practically lost, and probably very difficult to achieve for those who know them.

What the addition of Midi-Chlorians did achieve for George Lucas, was a "simple" way to give the audience more insight into the mysterious force without having to explain a lot of mystical rules. Thereby allowing him to get on with the already long and complicated story at hand.

I can see why he did it, and although I don't really like it, he wisely chose not to focus too much attention on it.

[Huttman]

Originally Posted by C Of K

The biggest reason Midi-Chlorians were included, I think, is probably because George Lucas wanted to include them.

Perhaps Mr. Lucas had not thought that far as to explain the Force back then or maybe it just didn't fit into the story. I'm sure over the past 30 years his search for knowledge and his own understanding of things has grown. To expand on the story, he came up with this to add to it, for better or worse is being commented on here and elsewhere...

Originally Posted by C Of K

Had they been excluded few (relatively) would have questioned Darth Plagueis' ability to create life.

I think I would have been one of the few, I have a tendency to rationalize things to make them work, even with the odd idea of Midi-Chlorians. It was never explained how Darth Plagueis created life beyond influencing the Midi-Chlorians to do so. Clones are a created life product. I read somewhere that Palpatine was responsible for Anakin's creation by using his former master's teachings. Whether that is canon or not, was Palpatine aware of the prophesy then? Uh-oh, more questions.

Originally Posted by C Of K

I can see why he did it, and although I don't really like it, he wisely chose not to focus too much attention on it.

It has been my experience that so many are searching for answers and explainations but even fewer are happy with the results if given. Lucas might be making this up as he goes, and even I have appreciated the generalness of the Force in these movies to fit in my understanding of things, but life begs to be understood, even in the movies. So much was influenced by Joseph Campbell in George Lucas while making these movies, but I think Lucas has tried to take his understanding farther than Campbells. JC saw the connection of myth, he saw the hipocrisy of religion, but never really came to any conclusions for himself. He was a ridicular. It seems JC also did not like Christianity very much and GL has two very strong Christian themes in these movies, Luke's self sacrifice and the immaculate conception. Maybe it's a pot luck of ideas that GL has thrown together, and I know he and his movies are not perfect (who is), but it seems to me he is on the right track as a person thinking highly enough of those themes to add them to his own grand story.

So don't get me wrong C of K, I think it was smart of him to not explain a lot with these ideas. It leaves more to the imagination for the audience to contemplate things on their own and it alienates fewer people from the whole thing (supposedly!). Since contributing to this forum, I have valued your insight and opinions on everything I've read from you. Keep it going!!!

[C Of K]

Hey, Huttman! Great job on the multiple quote thing.

Originally Posted by Huttman

Perhaps Mr. Lucas had not thought that far as to explain the Force back then or maybe it just didn't fit into the story. I'm sure over the past 30 years his search for knowledge and his own understanding of things has grown. To expand on the story, he came up with this to add to it, for better or worse is being commented on here and elsewhere...

On face value, it would seem that George Lucas gave us more knowledge into the workings of the force by including Midi-Chlorians. But in really examining things, I don't think he did. Before TPM we knew that the force controlled actions, and obeyed commands. A jedi tuned himself to hear the force by letting go of consciousness (to a certain degree) and stretching out with his feelings (namely to feel the force).

Currently I know no more than that, accept that there is apparently another life-form involved in the whole process of using the force. I have to consider the possibility that (in a story oriented way) the Midi-Chlorians serve the purpose of smokescreen. (George Lucas knew that people would want to know more about the force when they came to see new Star Wars films.)

The smokescreen is this: Luke, in being a life-form, was able to accomplish certain superhuman feats in the Original Trilogy. In comparison, the creation of Anakin is no more or less superhuman than the abilities Luke displayed. Both are (widely considered) humanly impossible outside of fiction.

That is why I'm having trouble believing that George Lucas implemented Midi-Chlorians for the sake of explaining Anakin's birth. I believe the story would have held together whether he mentioned Midi-Chlorians, or not because adding them was just a trading of life-form for life-form.

Now, instead of Luke being able to jump really high by just listening to the force itself he has a go between, which is just another lifeform.

Although Midi-Chlorian does sound like a very scientific term, the New Trilogy neither went into the scientific workings concerning how they speak to the force, or how they help the jedi achieve different powers at will. That is why I gained very little new knowledge concerning the force from the New Trilogy.

The real question is: If the power to create life needed this sort of in-depth explanation, why were other superhuman abilities so readily accepted by people who know the story? I've never heard anyone dispute the validity of any jedi ability displayed in the original trilogy.

[Huttman]

Agreed! I don't think Midi-chlorians were a necessity in explaining the story or giving validity to it or Anakin's creation, very similiar to Deanna Troi's character in the first 2 or 3 seasons of ST:TNG. (I'm glad her character got much better writers after that) Quite frankly, Anakin being immaculatly created by the Force is more satisfying than Midi-chlorians being involved. I really just overlook it, and as I stated in some previous thread, the back of my mind just accepts Midi-chlorians are put there from the creator of the Force. I don't let things like that stumble me from enjoying everything else about these movies. To me the new trilogy is not a complete failure to the legend of the original, they compliment them with new characters and ideas, some good and some that just can't live up to IV-VI. The more I watch them, the more I enjoy them, as I know also there will be something new on the horizon soon enough and that quirck becomes very small indeed. (About the size of a microscopic life-form!)

[C Of K]

Both trilogies have strengths and weaknesses, but As far as my favorite media goes, nothing can touch Star Wars—until my book comes out.

I believe the entire presentation of TNG improved greatly over the years. The movie First Contact was awesome, as well. (I believe Deanna Troi was often drunk in that movie) Something in me just loved it more than any other Star Trek.

[Majimaune]

Until your book comes out hey? Well once it does I'll beat it with my book.

[Huttman]

Well I'm no writer, but if you need some cover art...