XENOCIDE: Philosophical Aspects, your opinions

[orionsixwings]

I'm almost through with Xenocide (yeah, I know, I'm very slow!) and I just wanted to have a healthy discussion of all the Philosophical points that O.S.C. raised in the book.

Please keep the discussion friendly and healthy. No fighting.

[orionsixwings]

Of gods

Very sensitive topic, I asure you, so in the interest of peace, we will keep the conversation focused on what happened at Ender's world only. No real-world discussions, there's a place for that in the forum.

***

The people of Path believed that the gods were speaking to Qing-Jao's family for years, and even Qing-Jao's father believed it for a time until he realized that it was OCD from the start.

On the other hand, Ender and Valentine grew up in a family that did not have any kind of spirituality, and although Ender tried to embrace Novinha's religion, in the end, and in truth, his heart had never resolved into believing it the way the people of Milagre did.

Which do you think had a healthier life: those who believed in the existence of gods or those who believed in nothing spiritual?

[ScottSF]

Living with the Truth is always better on an invdividual basis but perhaps humans aren't evolved enough to live without some religion to keep them in line on a more massive scale. I think it's always better to do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because of coercion from an invisible imaginary man (or invisible people) that watch over us. Qing-jao's reaction to the truth was very disappointing but also very realistic. There are people who won't budge from their beliefs nomatter what evidence is placed in front of them. They can either move the goal poast or make some mental construct that allows their beliefs to remain intact nomatter what the evidence. Qing-jao's "it's a test and I must only pray harder" is very typical, very human.

[orionsixwings]

Originally Posted by ScottSF

Living with the Truth is always better on an invdividual basis but perhaps humans aren't evolved enough to live without some religion to keep them in line on a more massive scale. I think it's always better to do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because of coercion from an invisible imaginary man (or invisible people) that watch over us. Qing-jao's reaction to the truth was very disappointing but also very realistic. There are people who won't budge from their beliefs nomatter what evidence is placed in front of them. They can either move the goal poast or make some mental construct that allows their beliefs to remain intact nomatter what the evidence. Qing-jao's "it's a test and I must only pray harder" is very typical, very human.

I agree with you completely. I mean there are many religions nowadays that have been proven by historical fact to be nothing more than a propaganda for power yet there are still believers that insist that divine inspiration is ultimately at its core. I couldn't help empathizing with Qing-Jao because I was in the same boat a few years back, but thankfully through research I was set free from a stifling belief that was a sad excuse for colonization.

O.S. Card was very sly to have had that inserted into the plotline in such a subtle way that sometimes you don't see it unless you read the book again, which is okay because I love XENOCIDE anyway.

[ScottSF]

Hi Orion

little of topic but, what order did you read the books in? I was a bit confused but I think there was an order they were written and a chronological order within the story. I read Xenocide as the 3rd ender book: Ender's Game - Speaker for the Dead - Xenocide.

One thing I liked about Xenocide was how even though Humanity seemed morally enlightened and agreed on the awful result of the Bugger War, Congress was ready to do it all over again with the percieved piggy threat. The same duality was apparent when people were intelectually horrified about the Bugger xencide and ready to accept their "beauty" as portrayed in the Hivequeen book but when faced with an actual bugger the primal survival/fear/enemy instinct was ready to assert itself. I appreciate also how Card works on deeply developing alien minds and culture of a few species rather than populated the galaxy with a plethora of aliens that are all basically humans with one aspect exagerated. The dificulty of communication across completely different cultural contexts was well done. May be a while before I get to the next book but I look forward to it.

[orionsixwings]

I did read it in that order - ENDER'S Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind, then Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Shadow of the Giant.

I'm just fascinated by the storyline of Xenocide because Orson Scott Card has carefully, and masterfully embedded some of the most sensitive themes in it: Superiority, Cultural difference, tolerance and acceptance, and Judgement. Who makes the rules? Who says what is right, what is wrong? Who gets to say what should be done and what shouldn't be done? Whose God must be worshipped? What language should be used by all people? Who is more important?

These are real-world issues that plague humanity on a daily basis. Some of us refuse to acknowledge it, others thrive with it, still others have to live with it and many die because of it. But these questions remain unanswered. In Xenocide though, these questions were partially answered. I love the way Orson laid it out through the story of Qing Jao and the people of Path, and Ender and Valentine, and Novinha and her family. The intricacies of their lives can be seen in the lives of people we know now--perhaps our own lives mirror them in some aspect. Then the Buggers and the Pequeninnos, who were sentient beings totally different from us--isn't this the way we look at some of the more bizaare members of the human civilization? Anything that is not native to us we treat as aliens--just like the Buggers, sometimes we are scared of those who are so different from us that we sometimes decide to wipe them out completely and we've done that many times too. People do have a tendency to believe that they are the only ones worthy of life. That they get to decide who stays and who goes.

[digs]

I love OSC's embedding of philosophy into his novels. Philosophy drives the entire plot, yet it doesn't feel heavy-handed or preachy. And, like all good philosophy, it questions rather than answers. I feel that it's impossible to decide whether those who believed in or found gods lived a 'healthier' life than those who did not - they merely lived differently. I'm sure many people of Path were perfectly content with their gods: discovering the truth may have been as terrifying as it was liberating for some. That raises further discussion on the virtues of ignorance and self-delusion - another fantastic element of OSC's writing, that he blends so many interesting themes together seamlessly.