Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Shrek Baby · 14th July 2007, 09:16 AM

I think not!

I'm trying to work out at exactly what point RTD decided that Captain Jack Harkness would also be The Face of Boe!

It was a great shock moment in the final ep of season 3 of Dr Who, but I can't accept that this was planned from the beginning. My thoughts are that when Gridlock was written, the idea planted itself in RTD's head. Could make for some interesting episodes to see how he goes from his human form into Big Face!

Any thoughts out there?

PTeppic · 14th July 2007, 09:42 AM

I think he must have decided by the time he wrote Gridlock, rather than something that cam after. Each season seems to be fully formed, so that any spoilers, trailers and telegraphs for the season finale are there from the start of the season. Example: Saxon posters in episode 1.

That Jack becomes the Face does seem a little far-fetched but, who knows, given he is almost immortal then pretty much anything can happen.

It is something I've been meaning to do: go back and watch the two earlier Boe episodes ("End of the World" and "New Earth") to see how they run, knowing the outcome. A bit like watching "Sixth Sense" a second time...

PTeppic · 14th July 2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTeppic

It is something I've been meaning to do: go back and watch the two earlier Boe episodes ("End of the World" and "New Earth") to see how they run, knowing the outcome. A bit like watching "Sixth Sense" a second time...

Just done it. "End of the World" doesn't make any commitment either way: they simply meet, apparently for the first time. There's no recognition from Boe.

In "New Earth" there is clearly a recognition at having apparently met for the second time. However, Novice Hame refers to the Face's people as Boe-Kind, though of course it might just be legend. Later, when the Face speaks of learning something from the Doctor, it seems very much at being some he has JUST learned, not something he's been treasuring for millennia.

Would be a great question for RTD at an interview though: when did he/TPTB really come up with the idea of making Jack the Face of Boe.

Shrek Baby · 14th July 2007, 08:05 PM

There's no recognition perhaps as Boe/Jack realises that he can't meddle with the timeline. If he showed any sign of recognition, the Doctor would want to investigate further.

Also - another possibility is that as Jack ages (at least 5 billion years old) it is possible that he might forget a few things once in a while!!!

PTeppic · 14th July 2007, 08:18 PM

More likely that he's realised the need to preserve the timeline. He seemed to have learned quite a bit between leaving the Doctor and rejoining in the three-parter, and I got the feeling that the Doctor recognised it too. Even at that age I can't seem him forgetting the Doctor: the reason he IS this old...

pyan · 14th July 2007, 08:34 PM

Is it possible that when the Face of Boe was first written into the series, there was no intention of it being anything to do with Handsome Jack; and the revelation in the last episode was an afterthought to tie up the loose ends and provide a shock talking point?

Or is that a cynical, unworthy thought.

HoopyFrood · 14th July 2007, 08:46 PM

Well, it certainly was a throwaway line (akin to a certain novel: "Guess what, I'm the Half-Blood Prince, haha!"): "Yeah, they used to call me the Face of Boe". Did I blank out for half a second -- I think I was still reeling from the things that had happened in the episode a few minutes earlier!

-- but did Jack actually explain why he was given that nickname? So much more could be made of it -- starting with how exactly he goes from being handsome, American Captain Jack to a telepathic, giant face.

Ooh, look out, might be another spin-off!

xander838 · 14th July 2007, 11:13 PM

Yes it is explained how he got the nickname the face of boe.

He was the first person from his home(the Boeshane Peninsula) to be accepted into the newly formed Time Agency and because of his good looks they made him the poster boy for the agency, and his fame earned him the nickname the face of boe.

well thats roughly how he explained it in the last ep of Dr who anyway.

HoopyFrood · 14th July 2007, 11:15 PM

Ahh...thanks! I really did blank out on that part then! I thought there might have been some explanation, I did vaguely hear him telling The Doctor and Martha something, but I think I must've been otherwise distracted at the time.

xander838 · 14th July 2007, 11:21 PM

no prob always glad to help out

Shrek Baby · 16th July 2007, 11:16 PM

hmm - just watched the Doctor Who Confidential prog that relates to "Gridlock". Boe says that he is the last of his kind - but he's not if he's Jack! Jack is human and humans clearly exist a lot longer.

However, RTD says something cryptic about a revelation about Boe - I thought it was going to be the whole "You are not alone" saga, but he said it was a revelation about Boe - not the Time Lords.

It would seem that he had the idea but contradicted himself in the script of Gridlock!

HoopyFrood · 16th July 2007, 11:24 PM

Jack doesn't seem that human once he reaches the Face of Boe stage, though, so if he's referring to Large Face Kind then he certainly is the last (and probably the first)! Unless he had a whole host of Big Face children, you know how promiscuous Jack is (although the mind boggles at how that's possible with a being that's only a head

) but they all died out because they weren't immortal (or at least long lived, seeing as Boe eventually dies) like Jack. And plus, as I said, they're big heads and would probably be quite hard to reproduce...

And now I really don't know what the hell I'm going on about, so I'm going to stop!

Shrek Baby · 17th July 2007, 07:50 AM

That would make an interesting story - "Boe's Babies"

How exactly does a billion-year-old horny big face reproduce - especially since he is the only one of his kind. Hang on - what if Jack wasn't the only person Rose brought back to life at the end of Season 1? Maybe there is another immortal out there who evolved into Boekind. That would make a most bizarre Torchwood story.

Dave · 17th July 2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrek Baby

Also - another possibility is that as Jack ages (at least 5 billion years old) it is possible that he might forget a few things once in a while!!!

In 'Gridlock', Boe says "I'm so old, I've seen so much, maybe too much." I think it is possible that he has forgotten more than he ever knew at the same time - I feel like that sometimes and I'm not nearly 5 billion years old.

I also just saw the 'Doctor Who Confidential' for 'Gridlock' when they discuss Boe's great revelation, though not what it will be. I think they knew from the start of the Season what they were going to do, but clearly they had not thought of it when they made 'End of the World' becaue Jack was not introduced until 'The Doctor Dances' and he didn't become immortal until 'The Parting of the Ways'.

Also, a few people are saying that he is not human, just humanoid, so he COULD actually be the last of his kind.

One question though, it was Rose's connection to the TARDIS that apparently made him immortal, (I didn't follow that completely if someone can explain it better) so why can he die at all? Is it because the TARDIS itself has died? Or the energy ran out?

Shrek Baby · 17th July 2007, 11:41 AM

Rose absorbed the power contained within the heart of the TARDIS and used it to breathe life into Jack. I don't think she absorbed all the power of the TARDIS and therefore the energy infused into Jack would run out at some point - apparently it runs for 5 billion and 53 years.

Another possibility is that Jack as Boe has not died at all. He obviously has evolved at some point from the humanoid Jack into Big Face - maybe Boe's death is yet another stage in this evolution process. He might now exist as pure TARDIS energy and is floating around the universe.

Possible - or is my imagination working overtime?

14th July 2007, 09:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
Shrek Baby It ain't easy being green Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 73	Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? I think not! I'm trying to work out at exactly what point RTD decided that Captain Jack Harkness would also be The Face of Boe! It was a great shock moment in the final ep of season 3 of Dr Who, but I can't accept that this was planned from the beginning. My thoughts are that when Gridlock was written, the idea planted itself in RTD's head. Could make for some interesting episodes to see how he goes from his human form into Big Face! Any thoughts out there?

14th July 2007, 09:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
PTeppic Reetou Diplomatic Corp Join Date: May 2001 Location: North-west UK Posts: 3,797	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? I think he must have decided by the time he wrote Gridlock, rather than something that cam after. Each season seems to be fully formed, so that any spoilers, trailers and telegraphs for the season finale are there from the start of the season. Example: Saxon posters in episode 1. That Jack becomes the Face does seem a little far-fetched but, who knows, given he is almost immortal then pretty much anything can happen. It is something I've been meaning to do: go back and watch the two earlier Boe episodes ("End of the World" and "New Earth") to see how they run, knowing the outcome. A bit like watching "Sixth Sense" a second time...

14th July 2007, 08:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Shrek Baby It ain't easy being green Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 73	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? There's no recognition perhaps as Boe/Jack realises that he can't meddle with the timeline. If he showed any sign of recognition, the Doctor would want to investigate further. Also - another possibility is that as Jack ages (at least 5 billion years old) it is possible that he might forget a few things once in a while!!!

14th July 2007, 08:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
PTeppic Reetou Diplomatic Corp Join Date: May 2001 Location: North-west UK Posts: 3,797	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? More likely that he's realised the need to preserve the timeline. He seemed to have learned quite a bit between leaving the Doctor and rejoining in the three-parter, and I got the feeling that the Doctor recognised it too. Even at that age I can't seem him forgetting the Doctor: the reason he IS this old...

14th July 2007, 08:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
pyan Ubi amici, ibi opes... Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 7,890	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Is it possible that when the Face of Boe was first written into the series, there was no intention of it being anything to do with Handsome Jack; and the revelation in the last episode was an afterthought to tie up the loose ends and provide a shock talking point? Or is that a cynical, unworthy thought.

14th July 2007, 08:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
HoopyFrood Flaming Poltergeist Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Devon Posts: 4,683 Blog Entries: 8	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Well, it certainly was a throwaway line (akin to a certain novel: "Guess what, I'm the Half-Blood Prince, haha!"): "Yeah, they used to call me the Face of Boe". Did I blank out for half a second -- I think I was still reeling from the things that had happened in the episode a few minutes earlier! -- but did Jack actually explain why he was given that nickname? So much more could be made of it -- starting with how exactly he goes from being handsome, American Captain Jack to a telepathic, giant face. Ooh, look out, might be another spin-off!

14th July 2007, 11:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
xander838 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 19	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Yes it is explained how he got the nickname the face of boe. He was the first person from his home(the Boeshane Peninsula) to be accepted into the newly formed Time Agency and because of his good looks they made him the poster boy for the agency, and his fame earned him the nickname the face of boe. well thats roughly how he explained it in the last ep of Dr who anyway.

14th July 2007, 11:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
HoopyFrood Flaming Poltergeist Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Devon Posts: 4,683 Blog Entries: 8	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Ahh...thanks! I really did blank out on that part then! I thought there might have been some explanation, I did vaguely hear him telling The Doctor and Martha something, but I think I must've been otherwise distracted at the time.

14th July 2007, 11:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
xander838 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 19	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? no prob always glad to help out

16th July 2007, 11:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
Shrek Baby It ain't easy being green Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 73	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? hmm - just watched the Doctor Who Confidential prog that relates to "Gridlock". Boe says that he is the last of his kind - but he's not if he's Jack! Jack is human and humans clearly exist a lot longer. However, RTD says something cryptic about a revelation about Boe - I thought it was going to be the whole "You are not alone" saga, but he said it was a revelation about Boe - not the Time Lords. It would seem that he had the idea but contradicted himself in the script of Gridlock!

16th July 2007, 11:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
HoopyFrood Flaming Poltergeist Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Devon Posts: 4,683 Blog Entries: 8	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Jack doesn't seem that human once he reaches the Face of Boe stage, though, so if he's referring to Large Face Kind then he certainly is the last (and probably the first)! Unless he had a whole host of Big Face children, you know how promiscuous Jack is (although the mind boggles at how that's possible with a being that's only a head ) but they all died out because they weren't immortal (or at least long lived, seeing as Boe eventually dies) like Jack. And plus, as I said, they're big heads and would probably be quite hard to reproduce... And now I really don't know what the hell I'm going on about, so I'm going to stop!

17th July 2007, 07:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Shrek Baby It ain't easy being green Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 73	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? That would make an interesting story - "Boe's Babies" How exactly does a billion-year-old horny big face reproduce - especially since he is the only one of his kind. Hang on - what if Jack wasn't the only person Rose brought back to life at the end of Season 1? Maybe there is another immortal out there who evolved into Boekind. That would make a most bizarre Torchwood story.

17th July 2007, 11:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
Shrek Baby It ain't easy being green Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 73	Re: Captain Jack - The Face of Boe? Rose absorbed the power contained within the heart of the TARDIS and used it to breathe life into Jack. I don't think she absorbed all the power of the TARDIS and therefore the energy infused into Jack would run out at some point - apparently it runs for 5 billion and 53 years. Another possibility is that Jack as Boe has not died at all. He obviously has evolved at some point from the humanoid Jack into Big Face - maybe Boe's death is yet another stage in this evolution process. He might now exist as pure TARDIS energy and is floating around the universe. Possible - or is my imagination working overtime?

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