How do you redraft?

[Dragonlady]

I have been told, or read, or heard time and time again that a first draft of a novel will need a lot of work before it is up to publishable standard. I have completed a first draft, but am finding it hard to tell where it needs work, and if I do find something I think might need changing I'm wary to do so because last time I thought, I'll cut that section, people at the writing group I was going to at the time said it was great and didn't need to be cut. No-one who's read it has come up with any major problems, though I'm sure it needs editing. What do you look for when you redraft?

[JDP]

Hi Dragonlady, I'm no expert by anyone's standards, but I'm currently editting a novel too. I think the most important thing is to NOT look at it for a MONTH or so once you've completed the first draft.

When you go back to it, I guarantee that you'll find some things that will need changing; when it's all fresh and new in your mind, it's hard to be objective about your own work (well, as objective as you can be!). Going back, you'll see that some things will need a good polish to sound right/better.

General stuff to look for while editting is stuff like (sorry if this seems obvious or patronising):
- spelling/grammar
- plot/character consistency
- eliminating passive voice
- weaving a bit more imagery into your prose (depends on personal writing style, of course)
- changing over-used words/terms
- general spit 'n polish for readability
- you get the idea...

Once you've done a round of editting or two, it would be worth showing it again to a writing group/some friends/a basement full of kidnapped publishing bigwigs. If they all come up with the same bad points, then some major reworking might be in order. From the sounds of it, your writers group haven't come up with anything glaring, which is great!

And then edit it some more... then go back and do it all again.

It's different for everyone, but from what I've read/been told/experienced, about three to five iterations seems to be the minimum to get a fairly polished ms. Some people go through over a dozen. If you're someone who edits as they go along, then it could be lower than that I guess.

Hope this helps!

[Dragonlady]

I put it down while at uni due to not having any time to look at it, lol, but that didn't change a great deal! Thank you, I'll give that a go and see where I get.

[Teresa Edgerton]

One thing to remember about sections that you think need fixing or cutting but everyone you show the book to thinks they're great: something can be absolutely fabulous all by itself and still have no place in that particular book. If you feel that a chapter or a sub-plot or a character or whatever doesn't serve your vision of the novel as a whole -- well, you're the one who is best qualified to decide that.

It also depends on who your readers are. Family and friends can begin to feel proprietary about your work; they're attached to it as if it were their own but don't have the same stake in it that you do, which makes them resistant to changes. If, on the other hand, you are showing it to a critique group, pay attention to what they are saying about other people's stories: If they are routinely loving things that you think are terrible, they may be too easy, too inexperienced, or simply looking for a different kind of story than the one you are writing. In which case, again, your own instincts about what belongs in your story and what doesn't are likely to be much better.

[Frank menser]

I am presently going over a novel I wrote three years ago (it's forth rewrite). Amazing how much you can miss. It is very easy to fall in love with your own words which easily blinds you (trust me-it happens to us all). Time makes for a much more objective critique. Take the above advice and I think after letting the tale stew for a month or two you will see much that needs fixing.

~Frank

[areader]

I guess saving different draft versions ...nothing is set in stone ....

[timelord4]

Hi Dragonlady.

At the end of the line, just before submitting, ask yourself two things.

1. Would you pay for the book you're holding? (Your MS)

2. Would the person next to you pay for it?

If the answer comes up negative or even maybe, it's not ready. Dig through, especially the beginning, sort out what it was you wouldn't pay for and don't stop until you can answer both those questions with a smile on your face.

To us the authors, we love our work. To the editors and publishers, they love money. It's a business.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by JDP

- eliminating passive voice

What does this mean?

[Teresa Edgerton]

There's an answer to that question here:

http://www.chronicles-network.com/fo...iting-and.html

You'll find it at the top of the third message.

[WriterDoug]

I've always had a problem with the statement, "eliminate passive voice" as if it were pure evil. I certainly agree that in academic writing, passive voice should be used at its absolute minimum, but there are occasions in fiction writing where it actually creates a better sentence and is even more desirable then the active voice. These moments do not occur often, and when they actually do, I simply have a hard time explaining why.

I have come across several sentences in my own writing that are definitely in the passive voice, and some I have corrected. Others I just refuse to make the adjustment becuase the sentence then loses something. Maybe it is that feeling of mystery or uncertainty (which the passive does bring,) or maybe it is just that feeling of something "there" that is both blameless and in your face.

I realize many people say that passive voice is a sign of poor grammar, and I agree that in most cases this is true, but surely it has to receive at least a little stylistic praise when used deliberately and in moderation.

cheers,
WD

[Teresa Edgerton]

The passive voice is perfectly grammatical -- and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is being perfectly absurd -- but it can lead to sentences that are so involved that you lose track of your subjects and verbs and allow them to start quarreling with one another.

As for academic versus fiction writing -- because the passive voice comes across as factual and unemotional it probably has more place in academic writing than it has in fiction. At least, school teachers and administrators seem to love it -- if you have kids, take a look at all the announcements and class room rules they bring home.

Of course, if you removed all instances of the passive voice from your writing the result would be forced and artificial. Nevertheless, most of us fall into the habit of using it far too often, and it does seem to be the number one mistake made by inexperienced writers. (It is also -- like the use and misuse of adverbs -- one of those things that people who are just learning the rules tend to get overly obsessed with.) If you go through what you've written and question every use of the passive voice that you find, and then decide on a case by case basis whether it stays or goes, your writing should get stronger.

[lin robinson]

The passive voice is perfectly grammatical

I agree completely and it's good to see somebody else say so. Witch hunts against passive voice and adverbs and such are the mindless slash school of writing commentators. Few who actually work in the fields say that sort of thing.

Any part of the language has reasons to be, and to be used. You don't tell painters to cut all yellows or secondaries colors, or musicians not to use doric mode or fifth chords, you don't tell writers to eliminate genera of expression.

[vintagefury]

The passive voice is grammatically correct. I had a teacher in HS who threw a fit when she read that one of the questions on this standardized test we took, asking which phrase was correct, had a perfectly correct passive voice and a perfectly correct active voice - the active voice was correct, and passive would have been marked incorrect. It was the first time I actually saw fire in someone's eyes.

Next up: the war against the war against the split infinitive. It's legal sometimes, damnit.

[lin robinson]

Doesn't even matter if it's legal. This is English. There is no official academy of English like French and Spanish have. Usage rules.

Since this is an SF site, more people should know this one. What is the world's most famous split infinitive?

[lin robinson]

"To boldly go where no man has gone before", of course.