What is your ideal concept of fantasy?

[Neon]

The best fantasy I've ever read have been the traditional type of fantasy. However, I'm really interested to read authors who are very innovative in how they write about magic, characters, etc. An example of this is the Runelords by David Farlard. I was really intrigued by the use of attributes to strengthen the characters..... while at the same time found the book lacking in many other aspects that make a novel beyond simply "good". One thing I generally steer clear of are fantasy novels that use our current world. I tend to like entirely new worlds to read & explore.

[lester]

just thought i would chime in, and dont mean to offend anyone who writes int the genres i dont like

but yeah, i cant stand the modern fantasy with magic in todays world. i think the main reason is that it seems almost more unbelievable than the fantasy invlolving medieval castles and whatnot. anything set in the semi modern era, i can look and see that there are, in fact, no witches in canada summoning dragons to invade dc.
thats just me though. but yeah, the standard medieval setting was way overdone a few years ago

im really starting to like the writing like dune, and even the pulpy warhammer 40k. while these are more sci fi, the do involve lots of the standard fantasy elements (orcs, some form of "magic" hero's).

[cleasterwood]

Give me good old Egyptian style fantasy like the kind I write. I've read many fantasy books along the way as well as mainstream. What I find most disturbing is the warmed over versions of the Mummy. For goodness sakes I mean if you see a 3000 year old mummy covered in faded cerements walking your way you aren't rightfully going to stand there and watch it while it comes to kill you. That's why I started writing Egyptian fantasy, to stear clear of the traditional stories. Seriously, why can't the characters be at least a little more realistic in their actions? I see characters do the most stupid things that any normal person in the real world would not do. Even characters are becoming cliched these days so I set out to write a novel that avoided the cliches and according to a few of my readers, I have done a good job at it.
Mythology, especially Egyptian, has enough stories to fill thousands of novels so I'm taking advantage of it by cornering the market while purposely avoiding warmed over stories.

And don't get me started about all the fantasy stories set in the Middle Ages, been there done that, sick of them! I'd even go so far as to write stories around other mythologies just to get away from the Middle Ages. How many times can you redo "King Arthur" before it starts becoming a bore? Twice, maybe three times then it's time to send the story to the trash pile.

[Teresa Edgerton]

About twenty years ago, Cleasterwood, I thought that the Arthurian mythos had been totally played out. Not only was I, myself, sick of reading endless rewrites and reinterpretations of the whole cycle, I was convinced that publishers and other readers must be as well, and that any author who tried to sell such a book wouldn't have a chance in the world of getting it published.

Well, I was wrong. It seemed that there were plenty of readers who either hadn't read nearly as much of the stuff as I had, or who were able to read vast quantities more without becoming satiated.

Not only that, but after refusing to touch the stuff for about fifteen years, I found that my own interest had been renewed and refreshed. Yes, I'm reading Arthurian fantasy again, though more selectively than I did before.

So, it's far from my ideal concept of fantasy, but it is my idea of a good, comfortable read -- when done well.

My ideal fantasy takes me out of the here and now and whisks me away to another place so vivid and alive that I'd swear I COULD visit it in the flesh. It has fascinating and believable characters for whom I can feel at least a little sympathy. It has an original plot, with enough complications to keep it interesting, but the actions and the events should not strain my credulity -- in other words, I shouldn't feel manipulated. It has shadings of both darkness and light. It is beautifully written.

[Circus Cranium]

I think there is plenty of fantasy literature out there that may use the token themes, but the imagination and skill of the author brings it to a new level. That's what I like to read; something that gives me escapism (as Kelpie said), and also something that makes me go...whoa. Well I've never seen it done like THAT before. I reviewed a fantasy novel recently for one of my fellow Mundania authors that was like this. In fact, I'm gonna go post the review on the reviews section.

[cleasterwood]

Kelpie,
Every once in a blue moon there is an author who can make the traditional genre stand out above the rest, but it's been a long time since I've read Arthurian or any Middle Ages style stories--mostly because of my fascination with the Ancient Egyptian culture. Their myths don't get quite enough fan-fare as it should in my opinion. If the mummy movies and stories can rake in millions so too could a well-written Egyptian fantasy piece surrounding other myths. With luck and determination I'll find out when my first story becomes published. I'm planning it as trilogy, but have already thought of at least 6 off-shoots with working titles just from the basic myths of their culture. Dare I say I intend on recreating Plato's description of Atlantis with an Eygptian twist in the second book I'm writing now. Although the trilogy is rooted in controversial theory, I hope to incorporate controversial and mainstream archeaological theories into a new type of story. Only time will tell.

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'm all for following your heart in choosing the kind of book that you want to write. I also sympathize with your being bored, as a reader, with Arthurian fantasy and medieval type fantasy in general, having gone through a long period when I felt the same way. But the long-term appeal of that kind of book seems to be bigger than both of us.

[rune]

I like any magic at all as long as it's written in a believable way and used in a startling and exciting way

I much prefer a fantasy novel with magic than none at all. For me magic is an important aspect of fantasy

[cleasterwood]

Kelpie,
So true-- all of what you've said. Still good to follow your passions when it comes to your own stories though. I'm uncertain if I would ever write the more traditional fantasy stories, but it might be an interesting attempt on my part. Their appeal may be bigger than we; however, so is the Egyptian style stories but I don't see many writers braving the great unknown to expand that section of the genre. I think the reason is though that writing Egyptian stories is too involved for most writers as there is much to research if you want to get things right. I've immersed myself into the rich history of the culture with many years of research (although every once in a while I make mistakes like we all do) and intend on bringing that section of the genre into the spotlight--Fates be willing anyway.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Cleasterwood, just because we don't see the results of that effort doesn't mean that writers are not trying new variations on fantasy all the time. It simply means that most of those books aren't being accepted and published, or that if they are those books only remain on the shelves for a month or so because hardly anyone buys them. (Six weeks is how long most books have to prove themselves in bookstores.)

[cleasterwood]

So, how then does one go about making that story sell enough copies inside six weeks? I ask because I don't want to see my story get published and then get "put on the back in the discount rack like another can of beans" (Billy Joel said that). I know someone who has a sci-fi series published and even though he hasn't built nearly enough of a following or sold lots of copies, he's still getting his stories published. Doesn't it usually take a few books to be published before sales soar, especially for a new author? And what do they consider enough sales to keep it on the shelf? Personally, I've thought of a few things to use as marketing devices. Once I get my advance I plan on booking and traveling to book stores to do signings to help with promotions as I have family across the country whom I can stay with to avoid hotel bills, send a copy of it to Regis & Kelly (Kelly has a book club and they usually review them on the air.), Oprah won't work because she's into the true-life stories, placing an ad on 'book tv' (yes there's a book tv), send out press releases with reader reviews, set up a website for my novels, place an ad in Reader's Digest, give away free copies, and well several other ideas including one that is a little far-fetched like dressing up as a different one of my characters each time I do book signings. I've already started building my fan base and have at least 5 peps in different areas of the country who will promote it as much as I do. I have titles that I know people into the new age scene will look at and go, oh! I want to read that! For some reason the word ATLANTIS stirs up a lot of readers! I know I have a good solid story, which is part of a trilolgy, every person who has read it loved it and I'm not talking about friends and family either (although they liked it they're biased); I'm talking about people on the internet that I don't know from shoot or shinola. I'm doing my homework. I even have a link listing all the Egyptian style books ever written some with best-sellers noted. That's another place to promote my story. What does it take?

[Teresa Edgerton]

All those things you suggest could lead to respectable and more than respectable sales, plus more than six weeks on the bookshelves. But to generate the millions of dollars you were talking about earlier is largely a matter of luck and timing. And first, of course, for any of this to be effective the book has to be published and booksellers have to be willing to stock it, which is where the more popular sorts of fantasy have the edge.

But the excellence of your writing or your zeal for promoting it is quite beside my point (or the point of this thread). Original fantasy novels that break the mold are being written all the time, but few of them get published and few of those that do get published sell as well as you or I might think they deserve.

[cleasterwood]

Kelpie,
I have to disagree that being a best-seller is largely luck and timing. I tend to think it's a matter of promoting the book properly, having a plan to do it in a reasonable amount of time, and putting enough money into promoting to make it become a 'million dollar baby'. If there are fantasy novels breaking the mold, then we should see them as any good agent/publisher can clearly see that it does break the mold, in theory at least. I don't really care if I make millions I just want to write for the love of writing but I want make a decent living doing it.

[Teresa Edgerton]

But agents and publishers are less interested in breaking the mold than they are in acquiring books they know they can sell because of their similarity to books that have sold well in the past, Cleasterwood.

I'm not just guessing here, when I say that non-traditional, non-medieval fantasy books are being written. I've met a great many fantasy writers (aspiring and published) over the years, and I know what some of them have been writing, I know what they are trying to get agents and editors to look at. Some of them are very fine writers, who can get their other things published with no problem, so it's not the quality of the writing.

And if these writers are in any way representative of the larger writing community, I can only conclude that there are plenty of writers who would love to write such books, if they could find a way to make a decent living at it.

None of which is meant to discourage you. Write the book that it's in you to write, write it because you love it, write it because it cries out to be written, write it because if you don't write the kind of books you would like to read then who will? By whatever combination of luck, hard work, and skill you may accomplish what others have tried before and failed. At the very least, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you followed your heart.

I just don't want you to think that you are the only writer clever enough and daring enough to take a chance on something different, and that you are therefore certain to be showered with money as a result. The first is inaccurate, and the second is unlikely -- though far from impossible.

However, we are now more off-topic than ever, and I suggest we take this conversation to some other thread, or continue it privately.

[cleasterwood]

Le's set up a new thread then? I'm always up for a discussion. BTW, since I do do it for my own joy, then I would never give it up. Perhaps if it takes a few different style books first then I shall travel that path but only if the first path falters beneath my feet. I don't expect to be rich by any means. I've never been in it for that.