29.13: Last of the Time Lords

[StevenSavile]

This is where my total geekiness comes in - in Tom Baker's debut story he makes a comment about Titanic which relates very strongly to the Woah moment of this finale.

And that of course is the whole point - the ship SHOULDN'T IN ANY WAY be capable of getting in... so there is something majorly wrong here... and that will be the story itself, methinks.


Also, the BBC never said she wasn't leaving the press release distinctly ONLY said she had not been fired - there is a press conference tomorrow in which it is very likely (almost guaranteed) that it will be announced she's joining the staff of Jack's Torchwood. Bear in mind she auditioned for Torchwood, not Dr Who, this is pretty much where she was always going.

[the_faery_queen]

the bbc news, just before the repeat of doc who (bbc3 i guess) said next series there would be two companions. so i was guessing martha and someone else. i hope martha stays, i like her, and i don't watch torchwood. (least that's what i think it said. im so hungover i could be imaginging it)

the episode was ok. better than last two. but i like things that are sad. but really, it's just ok. i was bored for a good part of it, and nothing sank in. it didn't leave me with any sort of emotion after all, not like blink or the two part one in 1913. and that's sad, i think. tv should be more than something to fill your brain, and doc who can be so amazing sometimes. not that it should always make you feel stuff, that can be tiring after a while, but to be left feeling *shrug* and indifferent is pretty crappy. even the worst tv doesn't do that to me. medicore tv is the worst, i guess. bad gives you something to rant about. good gives you something to go WOW and just ok, bland, like this, just makes you think of nothing at all.

[PTeppic]

Given all the powers the TARDIS has for self-protection (as far as a field a couple of feet beyond it's apparent physical dimensions, that will withstand Dalek fire) it does seem to be scope for a huge piece of exposition when the Doctor finds out how it happened. He also, presumably, wasn't intending to end up in either that time period, or location, or both (in fact you'd think he would go somewhere to cheer up for a few weeks, before heading back to meddle on Earth). As such, reinforced by the "impossible" crash, things are clearly going wrong - perhaps on par with the energy which allowed the Bride to materialise inside the TARDIS last Christmas. Or due to something residual the Master did during the cannibalisation.

Also, the life-belt doesn't mean it's the "real" Titanic... and presumably not alternate dimension, so some "ghost" ship, some space-borne parody run by aliens, or, given it will be "Voyage of the Damned", some hellish half-reality...

[SpaceShip]

Couldn't watch it last night as out on the town and my recorder doesn't! So watched it tonight and pleased to say no-one I've spoken to has given anything away.

But felt it was a bit of a letdown for a three parter - a slightly weak finish, although I did like the special effects.

And, like Pyan and Dave, it definitely had shades of Flash Gordon at the end - though where someone thinks the red fingernails beloned to the woman in red - she must be a navvy, cos her hands were definitely masculine!

Now - wadda we gonna do on a Saturday night?

[pyan]

Originally Posted by StevenSavile

it will be announced she's joining the staff of Jack's Torchwood. Bear in mind she auditioned for Torchwood, not Dr Who, this is pretty much where she was always going.

That will be interesting - let's see them try to patronise her!

[PTeppic]

Just out of interest, how many episodes did this season's finale connect to?

Smith & Jones - Saxon references, Martha's family
Shakespeare Code - power of a name
Gridlock - Face of Boe
Daleks 1 & 2 - ?
Lazarus Experiment - aging technology, Saxon security team etc.
42 - ?
Human Nature / Family of Blood - chameleon circuit & watch
Blink - ?
Utopia / Drums / Time Lord - here come the drums...

We may not always like the writers, but they're doing a bleep fine job of weaving the apparently divergent storylines to include the relevant snippets of information that lead up to the finale. Compare the above list to the first rebuilt season, where they "only" snuck a few references to Bad Wolf throughout the series.

(And, I wonder how much of an increase in Voodoo Child sales/downloads has occurred due to the episode...)

[Lenny]

In 42, Martha phoned home, and we saw her Mum with the Sinister Woman, who ordered the family to be arrested in The Sound of Drums.

EDIT: Just a few interesting things.

The sphere that was brought down by Martha and co, with the flashback to the child on the ship to Utopia, said "The sky is full of diamonds". Saxons wife was called Lucy. And she did seem to be tripping, I'll tell you that much.

Oh, and here's a corker I've just found:



Vote Saxon - The Doctor Who Role-Playing Fan Site - Home

[thecommabandit]

Originally Posted by Dr.Jackson

Then the whole 'Titanic crashing through the side of the TARDIS' bit, which makes no sense, since the TARDIS is virtually impenetrable. For the prow of the ship to exist inside it, must mean that it has broken the laws of reality (as far as the show is concerned) and that will take some explaining in the Christmas episode. If the TARDIS is three-dimensional on the outside, but something like fifteen-dimensional on the inside, with the only portal being the door, then surely the ship cannot exist inside it as well as outside it. Not only this, but we've seen the TARDIS blown up, shot at by lasers and the like, dropped hundreds of miles, and it still survived intact, so how can a boat get in?

Another one who doesn't quite get it! Right, this is a difficult concept for me to explain, but I'll try my best.
The outside of the TARDIS is impregnable, as you said. No arguments there. But the inside itself exists elsewhere. Its only connected to the police box bit, rather than being part of it. So the door is a sort of portal. What I'm suggesting is that the Titanic somehow went into a similar portal (disguised as an iceberg?), entering the same part of space (not the regular space with stars and that mind you) that the TARDIS' interior occupies, bypassing the defences which only exist outside the police box. And the boat can't exist both inside and outside the TARDIS (not at one point in time anyway), so if it's in the TARDIS-space (woo, new word) then the rest of it has disappeared from wherever it was before, maybe having something to do with its 'sinking'?

I still don't get what saying "I forgive you" did though, and why it damaged the paradox machine and everything.

[jackokent]

Originally Posted by Kostmayer

I had to wonder how where the Doctor managed to find a matching suit in toddlers size.

I was wondering this too Kostmayer.

I've loved pretty much all of this series and yesterdays was brilliant too.... but I did find the word thing a bit too convenient. It seems a bit too Peter Pan for me eg "I belive in fairies".

I love Martha, and it's great that although she's in love with the Doctor she isn't about to go trapesing after him like a love sick puppy. The girl has pride and resolve and that's great.

As for the Doctor, he's simply brilliant. Roll on Christmas!!

[Kostmayer]

Last post in this thread (till tomorrow anyways )

What did anyone think of the use of "I can't decide" by the Scissor Sisters at the beginning. Strange choice of song, but I thought it was great. Almost as good as Atomic by Britney Spears in 'End of the World'

[pyan]

Yes, the music has definitely taken a turn for the better, especially the Master's dance routines!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by pyan

Yes, the music has definitely taken a turn for the better, especially the Master's dance routines!

LOL

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

i don't watch Torchwood.

Good decision, only I can't help myself. I've been getting a perverse thrill out of how bad it is now! But the last episode did link into this Doctor Who story and now makes more sense for that.

As for how the Titanic (if indeed it is the Titanic) got inside the TARDIS - I will wait and see. I doubt the explanation will be half as clever as those you have come up with.

StevenSaville - what was the Tom Baker comment regarding the Titanic? I don't recall that. The story would be 'Robot' - not one I've seen recently.

[PTeppic]

Originally Posted by the_faery_queen

the bbc news, just before the repeat of doc who (bbc3 i guess) said next series there would be two companions. so i was guessing martha and someone else. i hope martha stays, i like her, and i don't watch torchwood. (least that's what i think it said. im so hungover i could be imaginging it)

Because having the video on Saturday night swap from BBC1 to BBC3 meant I missed the last 30 seconds of the episode (i.e. the Titanic bit) I just happened to tape last night's as well. Fortunately, being paranoid, I always start running early, so have the news in question.

Yes folks, whether we like it or not, the BBC3 News' ticker-tape headlines confirmed Doctor Who will have two companions next season; Martha Jones will be joined by a second person. Need to double check the wording (already late for work posting this!) but it did explicitly mention Martha.

My guess: since she won't travel without sorting her crush for the Doctor, the only solution will be he doesn't pick her up again until after she's jumped on her new boyfriend. How about that dashing young doctor from the beginning of ep13. We didn't really need to know that much about him or his backstory... did we? (And Tom Ellis, the actor, is classic-background UK TV: the usual range of soaps, cop shows, medical shows etc. which might make him ideal.) However, the flip-side, a love-struck pair of companions... oh boy! However, plenty of scope for irrational behaviour and misplaced loyalties, which are ideal for script-writers.

[thecommabandit]

Well I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere (I think it was this morning on the radio, not quite sure where it was...) that the Doctor will have a new companion for the whole series, but Martha will be making a comeback for the last half of the series, after being a major character in Torchwood.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by PTeppic

How about that dashing young doctor from the beginning of ep13.

I already guessed we would see Dr Milligan again. Your recorder must have also missed her calling him at a hospital near the end to check he existed.

As StevenSaville predicted there was an announcement this morning which GMTV picked up. Martha is joining Torchwood for the first half of the Season before returning to Doctor Who in the latter half. There will be more than one companion. It didn't make clear if that is more than one companion at the same time, but I assume it is. It also didn't make clear if the Doctor travels alone in the first half of the Season.

Originally Posted by thecommabandit

Well I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere (I think it was this morning on the radio, not quite sure where it was...) that the Doctor will have a new companion for the whole series, but Martha will be making a comeback for the last half of the series, after being a major character in Torchwood.

Can anybody post the actual BBC announcement?