The Collective Fantasy World

[Peter Graham]

Dear all,

In my relatively brief time on this splendid site, I have noticed that a huge number of members are writing fantasy novels set in what one might call a pseudo-medieval setting. My own scribblings are based in the here and now and I never fail to be amazed by the huge amount of work that must be involved in creating a milieu as well as in creating convincing characters and a gripping story. Every author is obliged to build their world from the roots up - political systems, races, technology, magic, flora and fauna etc etc.

Nevertheless, there are a number of themes common to these worlds and it occured to me that perhaps members could come together to design a single fantasy world (using everyone's best ideas), in which they could then set their individual plots. It would save an awful lot of legwork and would almost certainly create a vibrant and highly convincing end result.

I realise that there are certain downsides - some people will very much enjoy creating their worlds as part of the process of writing. Also, I accept that many fantasy plots are by necessity grand in nature and the world can only nearly end so many times (although Hollywood appears to make exceptions for New York and Los Angeles).

On the credit side, different writers could take responsibility for a different region or period in time, meaning that the whole caboodle grows organically. Authors could even write from the point of view of the Bad Guys - there's two sides to every story, even for dark lords and their hellish works!

Does this idea have any merit or do I just need an early night?

Regards,

Peter

[chrispenycate]

And Tokio; wiping out Tokio is an important step in any monster's existence.

A shared universe? It has been done before.With greater and lesser degrees of success.

Have you read Jack Chalker's "Dancing gods" series where he postulates that fantasy settings are so similar because, acros the sea of dreams, exists the template fantasy world that everyone's trying to describe?

Personally, designing the worlds, solar systems, species, physical laws etc appeals to me more than developing the characters; I've never understood human beings, anyway. Still, I'm always ready to design a turnkey universe for someone who might need one. (though you might notice I come out of science fiction)

However, off the peg universes always pinch somewhere, and letting out the seams for one means doing so for all.

Besides,you might approve of my mountain ranges, but I can't see anyone else wanting one of my dragons kicking around in their universe.

[lin robinson]

This is, to a certain and more subtle extent, what happens anyway. How many fantasy worlds are Tolkeinland or Conanland?

Dominant writers don't just seduce the imagination, they colonize it. My favorite example of this was Asimov's Laws of Robotics. They became real laws that other writers didn't break. They might not mention them, but they obeyed them. No more rampaging killer robots unless there was a reason they got around the Laws. Until Terminator created a new paradigm.

How many SF stories are in The Empire? Or DifferentDune? The cyberpunk world was pretty much all the same world with different chrome fins and hubcaps.

But yeah, I could see a healthy future for some collective creating a universe open to other writers, a user source like Linux. For "legal fanfic".

[scalem X]

Didn't Weiss&Hickman try this? They kind of shaped a world and now a lot of people are playing Dungeons and dragons in that world?
It is usually more in the gaming industry/writing crossovers that those things are done.

I have thought of the idea myself (the good and bad guy perspective and such), but I'm not good at creating worlds to be honest (well let's rephrase that: I grow easily bored at creating worlds). You'd need a couple of people to set it up and such, I'm sure you can find some fellow chroniclers for the job if you really want to go for it.

I do think it is possible, if you consider every writing within the world as a 'remaining source', written by a certain author, you can work away the conflicts I guess.

[Peter Graham]

Hello Chaps,

For my part I write in the here and now, so it's not something I'm really looking to do for my own purposes. I just thought that an uber-Chronicles fantasy world might be a leg-up for those fantasy authors who find the whole world creation scheme too big a challenge and just want to get on with plot and story. I know I'd find it pretty daunting, but it sounds like it'd be right up Chris' street! If so, it'd be damned good, as well.

I forgot about the gaming/writing crossover, but from the distant depths of memory I do recall a book (or, as is more likley, a number of books) with Shanarain the title. Swords and Stones thereof, I think. It seemed to cover the whole "Dungeons and Dragons" in fictional form, but I've no idea if it was successful or spawned imitators.

Regards,

Peter


Ps: Scalem - please do raise a glass of Rodenbach to Flanders for me!

[scalem X]

Actually did you people not know that chronicles originated as a forum from something alike? No really look!here
I believe that Brian quit the writing though, am not sure. I think big changes are coming up after the new update from Vbulletin. Then things will go wild and funky.

Ps: Scalem - please do raise a glass of Rodenbach to Flanders for me!

My exams finish friday; I expect a good deal of drinking following that up.

[Lith]

A lot of us like creating the fantasy worlds as part of the process. I really like medieval fantasy, but apart from Tolkien most of the worlds I've seen have elements that I just don't like, so creating my own world allows me to axe what I don't like (like dwarves and dragons, and elves if they aren't done right). Though to an extent people are already using Tolkien's languages for their elvish tongues.

D&D is the closest thing we have to a shared universe (or is it universes by now?) It would be interesting to develop an "open source" fantasy world, and see how many people would be interested in it. People wouldn't have to worry about avoiding copyright infringement that way.

[The Ace]

Chris, have you ever been to the edge ? The wards are so strong there because of what is real.

[Rider of scaled wing]

I agree with lith. a Conglomerate world has too many established rules that an author coming in may not like, or have totally different ideas about.

Personally, writing in an established universe just feels too much like fanfiction to me, even if it's to be published. it's not 100% YOU.

Influence can come from ahundred different sources and come through in your work, but still, it's got to be the author's own lense that focuses those bits of inspiration in their own way when they craft their own universe, rather than just tacking on something to something someone else made.

[The Pelagic Argosy]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

Nevertheless, there are a number of themes common to these worlds and it occured to me that perhaps members could come together to design a single fantasy world (using everyone's best ideas), in which they could then set their individual plots. It would save an awful lot of legwork and would almost certainly create a vibrant and highly convincing end result.

My "best ideas" are going in my own work, thank you very much! (Believe me, I need all I can get.)

However, I could be persuaded to donate some of my cast-offs to such a project. Sort of a faux-medieval, fantasy-cliche Salvation Army, as it were. For example, I had this idea for a town where it regularly rains jewels....volcanic ash mixing with lightening in storm clouds. (It could happen!) Feel free to use that if you want. It's nothing, really. Just give me a "special thanks" mention. And ten percent.

But seriously. I think good characters are products of their environments. These two aspects of a fantasy should, ideally, be developed together. In fantasy, a character's environment is often a metaphor for some aspect of his or her personality. (Hobbits and the Shire being the quintessential example.) The idea that a really good story could have a generic, one-size-fits-all world is a little depressing.

But your idea definitely sounds like a lot of fun as something to play around with. It could be sort of like a text-based, faux-medieval Second Life. As mayor of jewel town, I declare happy hour to be in full swing. (Hard hats recommended.)

[lin robinson]

it's not 100% YOU.

What is? The world we think of as "reality"? The many derivative fantasy worlds? The world you create based on years of influences from reality and other writers?

[Talysia]

I like the idea of a collective fantasy world, one specific to the Chrons, where the members put their brains and talents together to create a location and scenario they could all write about. I'm not sure how viable an idea it is, given the amount of planning that would have to go into it, but I like the idea.

[LauraJUnderwood]

Not just the planning aspects, there is also a thing called "copyright" and a thing called "trade mark" wherein you might run into a problem or two.

It might work as a fanfic thing, but I suspect pro author egos being what they are (myself included) sharing a world, unless being paid in advance for the time and effort, would not appeal.

They did this with THIEVES WORLD and LIAVEK and another series that was created by Andre Norton (Ithcar? Ipcar? A fair, at any rate).

And of course TSR/Wizards Dungeon & Dragon's did indeed spread out into this sort of thing.

Laura J. Underwood

[lin robinson]

There are a lot of ways around that. A co-op world could be released, set as open source for all writers.

Or for members of the co-op.

A publisher could "own" the world, leaving it open for all writers to write about, but only publishable through them.


I don't see any reason a writer would need a guarantee to write about that universe, any more than writing about Sherwood Forest or the Exodus or pre-history or the Reformation or whatever.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by lin robinson

A publisher could "own" the world, leaving it open for all writers to write about, but only publishable through them.

The problem with that is that anyone could write in that world, but if the publisher didn't want to publish your book you would have nowhere else to go with it. And frankly I don't see any publisher taking on such a project unless there were authors with recognizable names attached to it.

In fact, in the past, this kind of series has only worked if there were some very substantial names attached to it. And the series was only as successful as the first few books to come out. If they don't do well, the whole thing is doomed. So you run the risk of writing an entire book and discovering that a publisher won't even look at it on its own merits because it's associated in their mind with something that has already failed.

So, as others have said, the idea would work well for fan-fic, but not a good resource (except as a writing exercise) for those looking to sell what they've written.