Fredrick Pohl - Man Plus and Gateway

[merritt]

I likes Slave Ship by freddy pohl

[Connavar]

Intresting title it has that book.

[Sibeling]

I've read only Gateway, but I didn't like it because the end didn't explain anything. I suppose some people might like the book because it is mysterious to the end.

But I thought the book was a bit boring, and I had to make myself read it to the end in the hope that there will be at least an answer to the questions, like who the aliens were etc., but there were no answers, so I was disappointed.

[Briareus Delta]

Jem hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet. So I thought I'd mention it. Jem. There you go.

[Ian Whates]

Originally Posted by Sibeling

I've read only Gateway, but I didn't like it because the end didn't explain anything. I suppose some people might like the book because it is mysterious to the end.

But I thought the book was a bit boring, and I had to make myself read it to the end in the hope that there will be at least an answer to the questions, like who the aliens were etc., but there were no answers, so I was disappointed.

I'd have to disagree with you, Sibeling. There are answers aplenty by the book's end, and the story is tied off quite neatly. Okay, the aliens are never encountered or identified, but that was never what the book was about; they were just the mechanism through which the plot was developed.

Ah yes, Jem...

[Sibeling]

Originally Posted by Ian Whates

I'd have to disagree with you, Sibeling. There are answers aplenty by the book's end, and the story is tied off quite neatly. Okay, the aliens are never encountered or identified, but that was never what the book was about; they were just the mechanism through which the plot was developed.

But the aliens were about the only thing I really wanted to know in the book - I didn't care about the whiny, cowardly main character or his girlfriend, or any other character, they all seemed not very nice people.

I agree to what you say, the book was not about aliens, it was about people and how they behave in extraordinary situations. But I already know lots of things about people, I don't want to read more about them, particularly not when their actions do not set a good example.

But I was really interested in all that technology and the purpose of all those spaceships and what the aliens were like, and that is exactly what the book didn't tell.

[rimworlder]

The point about the 'whiney, cowardly' main character was the fact that he was able to overcome those traits and actually step into one of the Heechee ships for a voyage that had a good probability of ending in horrible, painfull death.

And, if you read the entire series, you do get to meet the Heechee, who, as a race, are pretty cowardly and whiney...

[Briareus Delta]

Originally Posted by Sibeling

But I already know lots of things about people, I don't want to read more about them, particularly not when their actions do not set a good example.

I can't see how their actions didn't set a good example. Earth was on it's last legs and needed Heechee technology to try to drag itself out of the mire. The characters were pioneers - they were risking death to bring that technology back (I accept that their motives were not that pure - there was also a very small chance of becoming fantastically rich!)

Originally Posted by rimworlder

The point about the 'whiney, cowardly' main character was the fact that he was able to overcome those traits and actually step into one of the Heechee ships for a voyage that had a good probability of ending in horrible, painfull death

Agreed, Rimworlder. And welcome to the Chrons by the way!

[rimworlder]

Thanks.

What does it say about me (versus most of the posters here) that I read those when they were first published...?

That time period in Pohl's career was marked by a notable turn towards characterization and many of the novels seemed to be based on general concepts that would provide those characters with "growth opportunities": Man Plus - losing identity is not necessarily synonymous with losing humanity, humanity is not tied to a 'form', Gateway - being human is not even necessarily corporeal, courage and cowardice are not necessarily different - in fact, they might actually be the same thing depending on how you look at them...

I've had the pleasure of making Mr, Pohl's acquaintance at a number of conventions and even hired him one year to address a World Future Society meeting.

[Anthony G Williams]

Originally Posted by rimworlder

What does it say about me (versus most of the posters here) that I read those when they were first published...?

Oh, I regard those as very recent works - I became a Pohl fan in the 1960s...

[D_Davis]

Originally Posted by Ian Whates

I'd have to disagree with you, Sibeling. There are answers aplenty by the book's end, and the story is tied off quite neatly. Okay, the aliens are never encountered or identified, but that was never what the book was about; they were just the mechanism through which the plot was developed.

Ah yes, Jem...

I finished it about an hour ago...

Pohl's Gateway is pretty good. A lot different than what I had imagined. The premise led me to believe this would be a kind of space opera teeming with exploration and mystery, but it's not. It really is an intricate character study of a deeply troubled space prospector who learns to deal with feelings of guilt, homosexuality, love and loss. Like the character, the narrative kind of meanders around for long stretches of time, and simply exists to convey emotions of oppression, depression and apathy. There were many times where I felt like grabbing the main character by the lapel and slapping him around. It is well written and interesting, and offered something a little different, I just don't know if I enjoyed where it went.

I do like how the Heechee are basically just a plot device, a Macguffin, used as a frame to hang Bob's personal story on.

[gully_foyle]

Originally Posted by D_Davis

I do like how the Heechee are basically just a plot device, a Macguffin, used as a frame to hang Bob's personal story on.

Exactly, I was never interested in reading any of the Heechee sequels because Gateway was not about them, it was the mystery of the protagonist that gripped you.

Did you ever finish it Conn? What did you think of it?

[D_Davis]

Originally Posted by gully_foyle

Exactly, I was never interested in reading any of the Heechee sequels because Gateway was not about them, it was the mystery of the protagonist that gripped you.

I'll probably never read them. I am not a huge fan of too many long series. Give me a single volume of great fiction, please and thank you. I cannot think of anything that could be added to Gateway's narrative to make it any better. Now, I am not saying that I totally love it or that it is perfect, but I am saying that it is a concise, self-contained narrative that accomplishes what it set out to accomplish. It is a complete and satisfying read, and I am happy with it.

[D_Davis]

Gateway - Frederik Pohl

It's the distant future, and things suck - what's new? Mankind has mostly strip-mined the Earth, mostly, of its natural resources, overpopulation is a huge problem, and everyday-normal life is hard and expensive. Our last, and only, hope lies in a strange alien planetoid called, Gateway: a wondrous and mysterious artifact left from a vanished race known as the Heechee. Gateway serves as a launching point for space prospectors who gamble it all in hopes of striking it rich while exploring the uncharted regions of the universe on ships programmed with cryptic, predetermined trajectories.

Before reading Frederik Pohl's Hugo award winning novel, I had a completely different picture of it in my mind. The above synopsis, while accurate, does not truthfully convey the actual thrust of the narrative. I imagined that Gateway would be a grand and epic space opera filled of alien planets, mystery and discovery, and while these things are touched upon, it is a different beast altogether. Set within the boundaries of a fantastic premise and the conventions of the science fiction genre, Gateway is, in fact, a nuanced character study using its genre trappings as an imaginative springboard. While reading this, I was constantly reminded of Joe Haldeman's The Forever War; the two novels wonderfully compliment each other. While Pohl doesn't directly reference the Vietnam War like Haldeman does, he examines many of the same problems plaguing the Vietnam Vets upon their homecoming.

The narrative is presented through present day conversations between Robinette “Bob” Broadhead and his mechanical shrink (jokingly referred to as Sigfried), and flashbacks detailing Bob's time as a prospector. During the therapy sessions, Sigfried guides Bob along a journey plagued with deep rooted feelings of guilt and sexual confusion. The flashbacks focus on Bob's time in Gateway and his unhealthy relationship with a woman named, Klara. The two quickly find themselves drowning in asea of apathy, lacking the necessary courage to embark on any of the prospecting trips, and so they lounge around, drinking at the bar and gambling away their savings while their lives fall apart. Once they finally do take off in the Heechee ships, things go from bad to worse.

I've read complaints from some readers saying that Bob is whiny and apathetic, and therefor unlikable and uninteresting. While I don't disagree, he is whiny and apathetic, I don't see this as negative. He is a deeply conflicted individual, and Pohl writes him in a believable and convincing manner. By creating an honest and unflinching portrayal, it becomes clear that Pohl truly respects his creation. Bob's idiosyncrasies, quirks and problems are not simple contrivances on which Pohl hangs his story - they are the story! The Heechee, the ships, the lost treasures, these are all just Macguffins used to develop Bob's character and his own intense personal journey. I'll be honest: while reading this, I wanted more space exploration, more answers, and, yes, more excitement. I wanted things to open up into an incredible and fascinating vista of breathtaking proportions. I was a tad bit disappointed at the time. But, after letting the narrative sink in for a few days, I have grown to appreciate it more for what it offers.

What is most surprising is how interesting the book is given the fact that it is rather static; not a lot happens within its 250-pages. Bob and Klara sit around, drink, gamble, have sex, float around in zero-G, do some gardening, and throw and attend parties for prospectors soon leaving or recently returned. Oh yeah, and sometimes Bob is sitting around talking to a mechanical shrink about how his idea of love was having his mother hold him while a thermometer was shoved up his butt. He gets mad, cries, throws a fit and acts like a jerk. At times I hated Bob, at times I wanted to throttle him, at times I wanted him to get off his ass and do something. I don't know if I ever really liked Bob, but I'll be damned if Pohl doesn't create a character and put him into situations that aroused a response in me. Through Bob, Pohl drew me into his world, and for a few hours I was living in a place that I would never even want to visit.

This is powerful writing.

[Snowdog]

I wouldn't normally recommend this, but reading Beyond The Blue Event Horizon before Gateway would help the second book enormously. Not knowing exactly why the main character is so messed up gives the book some extra dramatic impetus and mystery that's missing if you read them in order. It doesn't hurt Gateway either to read it second.

Anyway that's the way I did it (by accident) and I seem to like the second book more than a lot of people do.