help with writing more

[shamguy4]

for two years i have looked for a forum where writers can talk amongst themselves
i never found one- until today i wasn't even looking for one! but hey! i found and i will post!
i have been writing the same book for two years now... and guess what chapter i am up to...
no.. i'm only up to chapter 3...

well i should say that the first year i barely wrote being it was twelfth grade and i had to work hard that year
when the writing idea popped into my head i was so excited

i was always told i was a good writer and every test came back above a 90

so i ran, got a pen and a notebook and started jotting down crap! the ideas started forming slowly and that year i basically formed the book in my head- i dont have the whole story but the basics are formed and the rest i make up as i go along
this year is where i really pushed myself to write but it still is a bit hard with the things i do and college... i hope to take a writing course i never did before
i have an issue i think its a.d.d!
seriously i can think about my book all day and get very deep in thought but when it comes to sitting down and writing it i cant sit for more that 10 minutes!!
once or twice i sat for like an hour
this i think is the reason i haven't gotten far
im also constantly thinking about the sentence im about to write making sure it comes out right- in the end it does- after ten minutes
ive read people say you should just wrte and not worry if you miss out on important info but i dont think thats wise the info is the skeleton and basis of the story and if you push it off you may forget to put it in or you will paste it in at a bad area
i also write long hand being i dont always have a computer on me and i get really really really distracted with a computer being i love computers and that will probably be what i major in
in fact right now this site is distracting me!!!

[Anastasia]

Hi Sham!
I'm a little older than yourself, but I relate to what you are saying.

I think part of it is learning to switch off your 'internal editor', that little voice in your head that, when you write, is continually saying "Oh, that's not the best word. That sentence needs restructuring. I don't think that character would do that at that point..." If you edit as you go, you don't get very far.

So you need to get the concept in your head of a draft version i.e. this version you are writing isn't the 'real thing' its just a rough version, for practice or whatever. I know I can write 4-5,000 words per day when the mood takes me, but this blasted perfectionism I suffer from continually undermines me. I have deleted so much stuff from my computer, I couldn't begin to tell you. However, I have a friend who has the philosophy that the second time you write something, its always better. So, having decided the first draft will be rubbish, no matter what I do, that kind of takes the pressure off.

Another 'trick' is to set yourself goals. My goal for this summer is to get 80,000 words written by October. I am not worrying whether its great literature, I'm just getting a book written, any old how. When its written, then perhaps I can think about re-writing it 'properly'. Your goal has to suit your lifestyle and if you are, as you say, a bit A.D.D., use that and do bits and pieces when the mood strikes you. Just don't give up, that's the important thing.

You have to know who your character is. If the characters in your story know who they are (or at least where they're going, since my heroine is amnesiac ) they will tend to tell you what they want to do and where they are going. The same as your scenario - if you have a clear idea about the world your characters inhabit, certain stories are suggested to you.

You could also try alternative writing methods - like using a digital recorder instead of typing, or even using a voice-to-text system like Dragon 9, which I use (although you need a powerful computer to run it effectively). My university gave me a digital recorder, due to my disability, and I was sniffy about it being useful, but I've found it really great to take notes on. I also like to record myself telling my friends about my work - I can remember ideas that come up in conversation.

I hope this helps a little! A lot of writer groups I've been on are horribly competitive and you don't like to help each other becuase you might be trying to pitch to the same publisher! But this group seems friendly and a little more relaxed. Probably because they're SFF fans

[Birol]

As Anastasia indicates, you do have to practice turning off the internal editor. With goals, it is important to write on a regular basis, to set goals, and hold yourself accountable to them. Don't wait for the muse; she works for you, not the other way around. In RL, others have probably said this to you, but the demands on your time are only going to get worse. You have to make writing a priority.

Remember, the first draft doesn't have to be perfect. It won't be perfect. I give you permission to write crap.

Major problems you can fix during the rewrite -- and there will be a rewrite, probably more than one. With the first draft, you just have to reach The End.

[shamguy4]

im afraid to write crap
what if it messes up my story the editing in my head helps me really put together
im a very technical person i make sure everything in my book makes sense
very very very technical and i feel if i write crap ill become careless and ignore little mistakes that make no sense
im afraid it wont turn out the same if im not cautious
and when i rewrite a large section i find that i dont get as into the story as when im writing new material i feel like i have visited this part of my story already and its done with
so who says it will turn out better in the rewrite?
i feel i have to be very cautious in the draft especially with such a long story

[Anastasia]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

im afraid to write crap
what if it messes up my story the editing in my head helps me really put together
im a very technical person i make sure everything in my book makes sense
very very very technical and i feel if i write crap ill become careless and ignore little mistakes that make no sense
im afraid it wont turn out the same if im not cautious
and when i rewrite a large section i find that i dont get as into the story as when im writing new material i feel like i have visited this part of my story already and its done with
so who says it will turn out better in the rewrite?
i feel i have to be very cautious in the draft especially with such a long story

Ah hah... perfectionist? It's not healthy - I should know, I suffer from it in spades. But the one useful thing about the degree I'm studying is that I've had to learn to be a little bit less careful in the first draft. It's a long road, but I feel if I can get that cracked, it will vastly improve my writing.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

im afraid to write crap
what if it messes up my story the editing in my head helps me really put together

If it messes up your story, then it messes up your story. No one will die and the world won't end. You'll just have to fix it.

im a very technical person i make sure everything in my book makes sense
very very very technical and i fell if i write crap ill become careless and ignore little mistakes that make no sense

You mean like not using capitals or apostrophes can make it difficult for your reader to know if you're talking about being sick (ill) or what you will do (I'll)?

Okay, it's probably rude to say such things and I'll apologize now, before karma riddles my own post with typos.

Look, unless you create a very detailed outline and write exclusively from it, the story will surprise you. It will take unexpected twist and turns. The longer you take to write it, the more you will develop as a writer. As this happens, the story will develop, change, and evolve with you and your writing. At some point, you won't be telling the same story that you started out writing.

i feel i have to be very cautious in the draft

Why?

Because you might fail? It's a possibility in anything we do, no matter how safe we make it. I might be struck and killed by a car while walking to the store. That doesn't mean I won't walk to the store. I like the exercise and the stroll.

Because it might not be perfect? It won't be. Perfection is a wonderful goal, but at some point, you have to accept that it won't be attained by working on the same piece over and over again. That you have to move forward, take the lessons you can learn from this novel, and apply them to the next one.

Because others might not like it as much as you do? It's always a possibility. It's almost a given that they will like it differently than you do. The only way to find out how others like it is to finish it and get it out into the world.

[shamguy4]

Originally Posted by Birol

You mean like not using capitals or apostrophes can make it difficult for your reader to know if you're talking about being sick (ill) or what you will do (I'll)?

lol!!
no i mean like if my character does something it has to fit perfectly and theres no end that doesn't meet
i hate reading stories that don't make sense or have a shady part in it it makes the story less believable

Originally Posted by Birol

Because you might fail? It's a possibility in anything we do, no matter how safe we make it. I might be struck and killed by a car while walking to the store. That doesn't mean I won't walk to the store. I like the exercise and the stroll.

but you'll walk to the store with caution right? same with my book
and yes there are many suprises and twists that pop into my head but if im careless ill just mess them up
also in editing no suprises come i feel like im just rewriting to get it over with and make it look good
so to me the draft is the main writing

[Talysia]

As both Birol and Anastasia have said, it doesn't have to be perfect first time, and that's one of the creeds I live by when it comes to my writing. That way, you can always change what you don't like. I'm another person who writes long hand - simply because I prefer to. I get more inspiration that way, and I can do the tidying up and whatnot when I come to type it up on the computer.

The best advice I could give - and I'm by no means an expert, merely a person who loves to write - is to get your ideas down on paper first and see how it looks. I have problems with writing more sometimes, too, but I overcome that by going back over some of my writing and reading it again. Regardless of how it looks, I find more often than not that it gives me enjoyment, and I remember why I started writing in the first place, which spurs me on to write the next segment.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

but you'll walk to the store with caution right? same with my book

Caution? No. Aware? Yes. There's a difference.

[shamguy4]

well i guess i'll take all your words into consideration and i will try just to write but i can't promise fully that the editor in my head will dissapear
if i see myself staying too long on a sentence i will try and shut it down but if its going smooth i wont try and push it out of my head
usually it goes smooth except its me! i cant sit still for more than 10 minutes!!
i dont think its my editor head
how long do you write in one day?

[j. d. worthington]

Shamguy: I've both talked to and read a lot of writers over the years on this subject, and I've sat in on writers' conferences where they give advice and feedback. Birol's right on the money with this. I know there are some who will disagree, but the only way you learn here is to actually get the writing done, and then by revising to improve it -- usually several times.

Look at it this way: the first draft of your story or book is the pencil sketch a painter uses to get the basic idea of his finished painting down -- but such things are full of erasures and light lines for possibilities, bold lines for those the painter has decided are the better options, and so on. In your case, it's getting the story down -- and do not have it too rigid in your head. If you do this, your characters will be puppets, they'll have no life ... and then your story will be crap. You'll be dragging around a decaying corpse. You must let your characters guide the story... let them be real people to you, and do unexpected things. If they're not real to you, they certainly won't be to any reader!

The next draft is where you begin to straighten out the kinks. Go over it to see if things got derailed anywhere, smooth the language (somewhat -- don't be obsessive about it here, either), tighten transitions, etc.

Next draft is where you start really paying attention to such details intensively ... finding the mot juste, as well as making the prose flow as smoothly as possible; also modulating the prose to fit the particular type of action (a more detailed, leisurely prose for building up familiarity for the reader and for establishing character, etc. -- though don't allow it to become flab, simply give it enough space for comfort), a choppier, more terse writing style for the more action-intense sequences, etc.... and making sure you have transitions between these types so that it's not like falling down a flight of stairs from one to the other. But don't try to get this on the first draft, or you'll spend far too much time on the details, and not get the story told.

And as far as not being able to sit down and write... that will be a real problem, especially if you intend to do this professionally, as a career. On that, I'd look up information from people who deal with ADD, and find out how they devise coping strategies to allow them to keep focused on tasks such as writing or painting, etc. Because, in the end, if you're going to be a professional (I stress that because there's a difference between that and writing for your own amusement, or writing an occasional story just because the story interests you, rather than writing for your bread-and-butter), then you'll have to be able to devote large chunks of time exclusively to the writing. As L. Sprague de Camp once put it: If you wish to keep a writing from getting anything done, just interrupt them every half-hour or so; it derails their train of thought, and they don't get anything written. You have to find out how to keep that train on track, even if there's a major earthquake going on.

And I strongly urge you to read what professional writers have said on this subject. Believe me, what you're hearing here is being said very gently. Most pros who have written on this will be a lot more blunt -- even brutally so. Writing is not an easy profession... it's a bitch, plain and simple. It tends to take incredibly long hours, and intense self-discipline, and to often leave you little time for a life for long stretches at a time. And that's just the writing process -- you aren't even looking at making submissions yet... which is more brutal to the ego yet.

If, on the other hand, you're writing just for your own entertainment, or as a dilettante, that's something else. But, if you wish to be a professional writer... it's a hard slog, and you've got to be prepared to work your butt off on it. That's the best advice anyone can give to anyone wishing to do this for a living.

[shamguy4]

alright fine i will try to not look at what i wrote maybe that will help
and my character does lead the story so much that i put things in that i didnt plan on because it just fit with his description and atmosphere
but i feel like your telling me not to even think -just write blindly
maybe im not understanding you well
because there are times where im happy i edited
like my second chapter
its the first time you meet my main character- the first chapter is more like a prolgue
i put him in a situation that wasn't fit for him and it wasn't his default setting and the best way to introduce him
i deleted the whole chapter and started it over and i am very pleased with it now
its in a totally different setting in a totally different place
without editing or thinking i would be writing a totally different beginning that would be horrible really horrible
i just read something that stephen king wrote it seems he says you can edit something if you dont like it- but only after you finish writing because going back to spell a word or fix something ruins the train of the thought

[scalem X]

In general I agree with the others, HOWEVER
1-I think it was Erasmus (or some other renaissance writer, hell maybe it was even Multatuli, it doesn't matter) who wrote about one sentence (maybe two or three) a day. Then again it must have taken him bloody ages. The thing is, it is possible if you persist, but I wouldn't risk it (going on like this that is). But it does bring my attention to this: "Maybe you have to write in smaller bits, quit after three sentences, but do this three times a day. You'll get nine sentences a day and that's not a bad average.
2-You say your reports/essays come in with good grades, how do you get them finished in time? Do deadlines help? Maybe you can try writing for example a short story for a contest that closes in a month or two?
3-Indeed like Anastasia said: you don't have to sit down, try using a dictaphone (I think I'm going to try this once, even if just for fun)
4-I don't know how this goes for novels, but for short stories, I tend to write a-chronical. So I may write stuff from somewhere further in the story. This means that I'll get faster to the end and only have to fill things up. It also means I can focus on different parts, so I may lose concentration. I'll just go and start off somewhere else. (this may only work for me, so worry not if it doesn't for you)
5-Teresa Edgerton said that in the end to become okay, you need to write around 50000-100000 words (if I'm wrong on the numbers don't shoot me) to become a real writer. You just can't get it right the first times. Look at the famous writers they're all old, very old, ancient, dyin.. okay some of them might read this, no it takes time to shape you and words, so get them down.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

how long do you write in one day?

For the first draft of my novel, I don't go by length of time but by word count. I try to write 1-2K per day. 1K is typical. This is in addition to working on non-fiction articles, sending out queries and submissions, doing market research, working on school assignments, and any editing or critiquing projects I have on my desk.

I'll be the first to tell you that I have a very poor sense of time -- I was born with a malfunctioning internal clock -- so I'm more task- or project-oriented than time oriented.

[shamguy4]

i write like two paragraphs a day but isnt that a little? ok sometime a page but still i feel its small and the biggest thing is i dont keep at it some days i wont even write at all
hopefully in the summer when i have more free time i will use it wisely

when i say edit i mean the story not grammar- i hope were on the same page

im just saying if you dont even edit a little, your book will have sloppy sentences that may cause you to lead a horrible storyline

i dont mean go over the sentence and look for misspelled words and grammar
i never do that, i save that for,.. well... i haven't finished the book yet but when i do thats when i'll look for grammar
im talking if you want a character to run in a scary scene and stupidly you say he skipped down the corridor-
you can go back and fix it to 'run' otherwise it may not fit well in your head and it can waver the story
i mean- now that hes skipping in your head the scene doesnt seem threatening enough to write more scary sentences instead you start writing lighter and lighter and instantly the scene you had in your head comes out on paper totally differently