help with writing more

[Birol]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

i write like two paragraphs a day but isnt that a little?

Yes, it is. 1K comes out to 4-5 pages a day.

im just saying if you dont even edit a little, your book will have sloppy sentences that may cause you to lead a horrible storyline

It sounds like you're trying to justify your actions. You've been at this, what, two years now, and you have three chapters finished? At this point, you have to ask yourself, is your method working for you? If the answer is yes, good. Keeping working. If the answer is no, maybe it's time to try something different.

im talking if you want a character to run in a scary scene and stupidly you say he skipped down the corridor-
you can go back and fix it to 'run' otherwise it may not fit well in your head and it can waver the story
i mean- now that hes skipping in your head the scene doesnt seem threatening enough to write more scary sentences instead you start writing lighter and lighter and instantly the scene you had in your head comes out on paper totally differently

You didn't know it was a scary scene when you were writing it? In your head you saw the character skipping? Again, it just sounds like you're trying to justify your methodology. Again, I have to ask, is it working for you?

To me, it sounds like you are going back and re-reading everything that's come before when you sit down to write. This is a classic procrastination technique. Instead, try re-reading just the last scene you wrote in order to orient yourself in the story, then starting to write from that point. Also, don't let the story sit for too long between writing periods. This makes it less likely that you will forget where you are or what is happening.

Yes, writing as a career is much more fun than going to an office everyday -- you can't beat the dress code or the commute -- but that doesn't mean it's not work and that you don't have to show up everyday.

[j. d. worthington]

No, you're right about that aspect of it. If something "feels" wrong with the story, then you need to go back and correct it. That's the "erasures" I mentioned in the artist's original sketch. But don't obsess about the little things; get the story told first. Then go back and "fine tune". (And I've got to admit, using the phrase "default setting" for a character gives me a queasy feeling... it gives the impression of a machine, not a living being....)

Scalem: the problem with comparing modern writing to that period... they often had patrons. And many were either wealthy to begin with, or made their living via other methods. In such as case, as I noted above, then you can dawdle as much as you like. But anyone trying to do this as a way of life, as a way to make a living... it's suicide.

On the use of a dictaphone... the problem with that is that it usually leads to garbage writing. The sentence structure, the phrasing, the vocabulary, all tend to be too much the way a person talks normally, which makes for terrible prose. It meanders, is repetitive, and just in general tends to be extremely poor... until you've done a good bit of writing, and have a particular mindset you can switch to when you do this. Once you've got a lot of writing under your belt, then you might be able to do this and make it work and produce good, solid, sellable (and memorable) prose.

Again, if you're having trouble with getting the time to write, take a look at why, and take steps to correct it. Right now, with school, that's going to be difficult ... but you won't be the first person to have to find a way around that. The big question here is: Is this what you want to make your profession, or is it going to be a sideline, to be fit in when you have time? If this is what you want to do as a profession, then like any other profession, you have to make time to do it, no matter what; and you have to find a way to discipline yourself to actually getting it done. If it's the latter option, then it varies from person to person. But either way, you have to get the primary writing done, and not let other things distract you, or you'll never get anywhere with it.

[scalem X]

Scalem: the problem with comparing modern writing to that period... they often had patrons.

Yeah, but those writers weren't stupid, take Balzac, he seduced rich women with his writings. Maybe I should seduce a girl with a wealthy father? Mmm yeah. JD, you have marvellous ideas.

[shamguy4]

well i forced myself to write and sit still for just 20 minutes and it kinda worked!
i got a page done!
i think its just me and issue of sitting still though in class i could do it

and i must sya i still erasured or whatever you call it in my book
i wrote "he yelled again"
i skimmed the last few lines to make sure i had written somewhere that he yelled to begin with otherwise "again" is not so clear

when i saw it wasnt so clear (he yelled but like a few paragraphs ago) i added in a sentence somewhere before where i wrote "he yelled"
thats what im talking about when i say i am very technical and i like when everything fits
and i think thats ok to do
i think in the end its just me applying myself for more than 5 minutes

[j. d. worthington]

Perhaps. But more likely it's learning to let go of that kind of thing (which, from your description, really wasn't necessary... if you had him yelling a few paragraphs, rather than a few pages, or a chapter or two, before, there's not likely to be a necessity to include another sentence before "he yelled again"... unless you write really, really long paragraphs!) for the first draft and simply getting the story down. Then you go back and tinker with that sort of thing. You want the details of incidents to mesh, yes, and you want to be good with the prose, but first tell the tale. Then fine-tune it. Otherwise, you'll find yourself doing more and more of the editing process before you actually get much written... and in the end, you won't get anything written.

[Interference]

Hi, shamguy4 - who are the other 3?? -

I've read over some of these exchanges and to be honest, stop me if I get out of line here, but to be honest I think you're a bit over-concerned about finishing. Now, don't start throwing things at the me, I might be completely wrong, and I'm only here in cyber-space, anyway, so I can duck at the speed of thought, but I recognise some of these symptoms you've mentioned and I know something about how I deal/t with my own insecurities and there appear to be some parallels. I find it's easier sometimes to say "I didn't get time to finish it" or "I couldn't get an ink colour I liked" than "I finished the book and nobody liked it".

Fact: Writing a book is a vocational exercise. Other people's judgements are irrelevant. I'll repeat that, cos I know it's true: Irrelevant!

Fact: Advice and support are vital.

Fact: There's a world of a difference between 'judgement' and 'advice'. Decent folk give advice. Time-wasters and jealous people judge.

Finish something and bask in the achievement. Post a sample and get hammered for your punctuation and your grammar and your adjectives and adverbs - it's going to happen, make no mistake, but the point is that you will learn from everyone here and you will become better and better. There are no billshotters here, as far as I know.

I apologise if I've overstepped the mark or if this all seems completely off the point, but just some of the things you say are very reminiscent of some of the things I used to do - a lot! And there can only be one me. The job's taken, okay?

[Lith]

very very very technical and i feel if i write crap ill become careless and ignore little mistakes that make no sense im afraid it wont turn out the same if im not cautious

And it's amazing how often those little grey areas and loopholes will provide you with "outs" later on.

You'd be amazed at how many stories never get anywhere because the author is still perfecting the first couple chapters. It's a bad habit! Don't start!

You need to find a way to concentrate for more than ten minutes at a time. Silence the distractions, be it getting out of the house or working on a computer that's not got any "good stuff" on it, i.e. no video games, videos, pictures, music... I find an hour or two is the best length of time for me, but for you it may be a little different. Have you tried writing when you wake up? Before you actually do anything in your day, no newspaper, no television, no distractions, and a clear, fresh mind.

On the subject of drawing as it relates to writing- have you ever noticed that a lot of amateur drawings are very detailed, but the overall effect is somehow off? It's because the artist is concentrating on details too much, rather than beginning with the overall proportions and working the details in afterward. If you focus on drawing the hand of a figure perfectly, then trace it around, by the time you get back to the hand, the head will be too big, because you've drawn the hand out of proportion without realizing it.

5-Teresa Edgerton said that in the end to become okay, you need to write around 50000-100000 words ...

I forget which writer it was that said you can't call yourself a writer until you've written a million words. Even if you get published, until that point it's just beginner's luck. It's a craft that simply takes practice to understand (and for the curious I am about halfway there.). Two paragraphs a day probably aren't enough. A practiced writer knows what works for them, but only because they have practiced. Try holding yourself to 2,000 a day for a month and see if it doesn't work for you.

There is a time and place for editing, but until you finish the first draft, how will you know if you are editing it in the right manner? (I'm not talking here about misspelled words or obvious grammar errors.) You may find by the end of the story that your character will not be running down a corridor at all, and you've actually wasted time editing something you later had to take entirely out.

[scalem X]

I forget which writer it was that said you can't call yourself a writer until you've written a million words. Even if you get published, until that point it's just beginner's luck. It's a craft that simply takes practice to understand (and for the curious I am about halfway there

Must have been 500000 to a million then oopsie

[Anastasia]

Actually, I subscribe to John Brain's theory that "A writer is somebody who writes".

I didn't say professional writer - it is perfectly possible to be an amateur writer, a hobby writer. After all, you get amateur musicians, and amateur painters, why not amateur writers?

But just as many amateur musicians and painters put their hearts and souls into their work, I don't think being 'amateur' should be synonymous with being rubbish. And I also don't think being professional necessarily means you're any good (I'm sorry, but I just don't think Jeffrey Archer is a great writer). If someone wants to write 2-3 paragraphs a day, and that is their way, they should be left to get on with it IMHO. For some people, it is the thinking that is the important bit, not the actual writing. There are many famous (and good) writers who write that way. Others churn out thousands of words a day and ditch 90% of them.

I used to be the sort of amateur writer who wrote thousands of words and ditched most of them. When I started my degree, I joked that for a 1,500 word essay, I'd have to write 15,000 and work down (it wasn't much of an exaggeration). I don't think I'd ever heard the expression "economy of prose". These days, I plan better and I write less.

However, the original poster asked for help to write more. And I still think the answer is to switch off that old 'internal editor' and just write. Although it does help if you've planned your story out thoroughly so that you have a pretty good idea what's going to happen before you write a word.

[shamguy4]

thanks for all your very quick responses
i believe my main problem and issue is sitting more than 5 minutes
so im starting to make goals and it seems its working and each day i find im writing more and more
so i think i solved my problem
and about the editing i of course dont edit grammar but if i see something that wont let my story go on i change it i.e (i dont even know what that stands for i just know it means example) if i decide to kill a character and a few paragraphs later i decide to make him die at the end of the chapter after he reveals important information- i of course will go back
that is what i meant when i spoke of editing
i have shown what i have written to a select few
one looked at me astonished and didnt believe i wrote it because it was written seriously, very opposite what i am (everythings a joke) i think she called me an idiot savant...
another cousin keeps stealing it and reading it claiming hes read every book
and he needs to read- he says its good and yells at me to write more!
so i think im doing good...
thanks again for all your replys
i think the biggest thing someone needs is to feel secure about his writing and be confident and mostly feel comfortable and whatever you do it turns out better

[flynx]

I'm probably not the one that should be giving advice on fly-editing and the dangers it causes. Because that's exactly how I write. Write a paragraph, have a stretch, read what I wrote and edit it. write another para or two go make a cup of tea then re-read and edit.

I'm even doing it now as I type this post. (just went from quick reply to the reply button so I could add the smiley)

So if you can only sit for ten minutes just come back again in five and sit for another ten. You'll soon find it stretching to fifteen and twenty. When you get to four hours without a break you need to seriously think about stopping soon.

[shamguy4]

totally off topic:
so im writing a story and there are androids or robots or whatever you want to call them in my book
but i want to make a universal name for them ...
so ive been coming up woth names formed from initials of technical words like

system, operating, mechanicle, device...
you get the idea

but its not working out so well or i just havent found the perfect initials
i then thought of using a totally different approach and calling them a sort of servant but i didnt like it

i also have to name parts and peices of things so i was wondering
is there any place on the web with a list of science fictiony (i know fictiony is not a word dont worry) technical words
i also need a sight with a lot of talk on spaceships and parts
i know i can make up my whole own spaceship but ive heard of a lot of commonly used words for parts of a spaceship like
the hull
the engines and stuff...
i mean i know a lot of them but maybe there are weird exotic words i never knew

[Birol]

The name of the different parts of space-going ships usually are taken from their aquatic siblings. This goes along with how humanity thinks and works. It is likely if we ever do reach a time where we have large, space-going vessels, the names and uses of their components would evolve from things we are already familiar with. So, you don't really have to make words up, just find the logical equivalent in today's world.

For things that don't yet exist, when naming them, try to think of how it might be named if it were real. Oftentimes, things are named by their inventor or their function or some combination. Acronyms and colloquial, or everyday, names evolve from their.

For example, walk around your home. Your toaster is called a toaster because it toasts things. A microwave is a microwave because it uses microwaves to cook food. A toothbrush looks similar to a hairbrush, something that was in existence before toothbrushes, and is used on teeth. Scuba is really an acronym SCUBA and stands for self-contained underwater breathing apparatus.

Using words that are already familiar to them or words that help describe the object will also help your readers picture what you are writing about without the need for lengthy, and otherwise unnecessary, descriptions.

[shamguy4]

i wanted to make a universal word for robots
because i just dont like the word robots or the word androids
but i dont think i could or should
even if i make up my own term i would have to explain what it is...-a robot! so...

names of different types of robots/androids- that i can do in a second!
"...the l-m17 is a type of robot made by the company stupid-tech..."

its like an ipod- a name of what?- an mp3 player
i wanted to make my own term for the mp3 player
a universal term for androids
but i dont think its smart to do that now that i think about it

i just hate those words i dont know why?

[Anastasia]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

i wanted to make a universal word for robots
because i just dont like the word robots or the word androids
but i dont think i could or should
even if i make up my own term i would have to explain what it is...-a robot! so...

You have to ask yourself what the point is in writing? I think the point is to communicate your ideas and stories, and using words that people have never heard of, for things that people have heard of, is not likely to aid communication. In fact, it will do the very opposite.

Making up names for things that don't exist e.g. TARDIS, can be acceptable, as long as you introduce the new terminology slowly and don't confuse your reader. But IMHO there is nothing worse than a book that requires a glossary to understand it!

So if I were you, I'd keep the neologisms (='New Words') to a minimum. Think about communication first and foremost - what picture will be in your reader's heads when they read a particular sentence?

You could of course, introduce a robot with a particular 'name', like C-3PO (Cee-three-pio), or R2D2 (Artoo-deetoo).