Help me name some "evil virtues"

[Spectrum]

Hello, everyone. This is my first post in this section.

I have a wording problem.

In my fantasy world, I have a religion, called Iquinianism or the the Church of Iquin, that masquerades as good but is "really" evil. The religion is actually created by some sinister force as a means of keeping people under control. Central to Iquinian theology are the sixteen godlike, semi-personified forces called Sephiroth (singular Sephirah). (The word is taken from Cabbala, and the meaning is similar... I think.)

Each Sephirah represents some "virtue", i.e., some moral principle that is considered good and important in the Iquinian religion. These virtues are partially made to create a harmonious, well-functioning society, but more importantly they are made in order to control people. As such, they focus on obedience and coherence as a culture.

The sixteen virtues are these:

* Loyalty (keeps people from questioning).
* Humility (keeps people from complaining).
* Dilligence (keeps people working).
* Courage (in the face of outsiders, of course).
* Honour (keeps people inside the system out of fear of dishonour).
* Faith (religious faith, fanaticism).
* Chastity/sexual decency (because sex is dangerous and can lead people astray).
* Patience (makes people accept hardship and oppression).
* Acceptance (makes people accept hardship and oppression).
* Sacrifice (obvious).
* Obedience to the hierarchy (prevents masses from rebelling and rulers from sympathizing).
* Adherence to tradition (prevents rebellion and change).
* Adherence to the law (control).
* Unity (unity with one's own people only, leading to hate of outsiders).
* Hate of the wicked (hate of everyone different).
* Hate of blasphemy and heresy (keeps religion from evolving).

However, I am not satisfied with the names of the last six (the ones I've italicized). "Hate of X" just doesn't sound very virtuous, and of course, they need to sound like virtues. So, can someone help me find better names for them?

Suggestions for other things to add to the list are also welcome. I made up them all in an hour and I was pretty hard pressed to think of sixteen, so the list is full of redundancies. This idea is pretty new as of yet, so nothing is carved in stone.

Thanks in advance.

[dustinzgirl]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

* Loyalty (keeps people from questioning).
* Humility (keeps people from complaining).
* Dilligence (keeps people working).
* Courage (in the face of outsiders, of course).
* Honour (keeps people inside the system out of fear of dishonour).
* Faith (religious faith, fanaticism).
* Chastity/sexual decency (because sex is dangerous and can lead people astray).
* Patience (makes people accept hardship and oppression).
* Acceptance (makes people accept hardship and oppression).
* Sacrifice (obvious).
* Obedience to the hierarchy (prevents masses from rebelling and rulers from sympathizing).
* Adherence to tradition (prevents rebellion and change).
* Adherence to the law (control).
* Unity (unity with one's own people only, leading to hate of outsiders).
* Hate of the wicked (hate of everyone different).
* Hate of blasphemy and heresy (keeps religion from evolving).

Rather than hate, suggest the opposite. Control is a great evil, and men (or whatever) who seek to control thoughts through faith are generally evil (IMO) Plus, hate of wicked is also shown in unity...so thats not really a different virtue.


Holiness is a virtue, and in the sense of evil it can be a virture where all literature, songs, words, and so forth are oppressed for the sake of the greater or common good. That has been used by every religion to keep people in check since time began. this is the same as hate of blashpemy.

There is also Justice, where those opposed to the common good are destroyed, this is the same as hate of the wicked.

And from WIKI:

• Auctoritas — "Spiritual Authority" — The sense of one's social standing, built up through experience, Pietas, and Industria.
• Comitas — "Humour" — Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and friendliness.
• Clementia — "Mercy" — Mildness and gentleness.
• Dignitas — "Dignity" — A sense of self-worth, personal pride.
• Firmitas — "Tenacity" — Strength of mind, the ability to stick to one's purpose.
• Frugalitas — "Frugalness" — Economy and simplicity of style, without being miserly.
• Gravitas — "Gravity" — A sense of the importance of the matter at hand, responsibility and earnestness.
• Honestas — "Respectability" — The image that one presents as a respectable member of society.
• Humanitas — "Humanity" — Refinement, civilization, learning, and being cultured.
• Industria — "Industriousness" — Hard work.
• Pietas — "Dutifulness" — More than religious piety; a respect for the natural order socially, politically, and religiously. Includes the ideas of patriotism and devotion to others.
• Prudentia — "Prudence" — Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.
• Salubritas — "Wholesomeness" — Health and cleanliness.
• Severitas — "Sternness" — Gravity, self-control.
• Veritas — "Truthfulness" — Honesty in dealing with others.

Each of these virtues when placed in the context of ultimate obedience and control can be twisted into evil.

Truth, for example, is another form of torture to save someones soul, for example, torturing witches into admitting tehy are IN TRUTH witches, or convincing the masses that an outside force is lying are wicked traits.

[pyan]

* Obedience to the hierarchy (prevents masses from rebelling and rulers from sympathizing). Conformity.
* Adherence to tradition (prevents rebellion and change). Stability.
* Adherence to the law (control). Cooperation.
* Unity (unity with one's own people only, leading to hate of outsiders). Purity.
* Hate of the wicked (hate of everyone different).Uniformity.
* Hate of blasphemy and heresy (keeps religion from evolving). Tradition!

Any help?

[Birol]

Adherence to Tradition = Honor Thy Elders

Hate of the Wicked = Teach the One Truth/Preach the Gospel/Save The Unrepentant (You get the idea.)

Hate of Blasphemy and Wickedness = Do Not Take That Which is Holy in Vain

[Anastasia]

Hi Spectrum,
this sounds really good. At one time in my life, I was involved with a rather fanatical religion so I definitely get where you're coming from.

* Obedience to the hierarchy (prevents masses from rebelling and rulers from sympathizing).

Did you have Submission?

* Adherence to tradition (prevents rebellion and change).

Orthodoxy

* Adherence to the law (control).

Legitamacy

* Unity (unity with one's own people only, leading to hate of outsiders).

Oneness

* Hate of the wicked (hate of everyone different).

Just, Justice

* Hate of blasphemy and heresy (keeps religion from evolving).

Purity

[Spectrum]

Thanks for your suggestions, guys and girls.

Originally Posted by dustinzgirl

Holiness is a virtue, and in the sense of evil it can be a virture where all literature, songs, words, and so forth are oppressed for the sake of the greater or common good. That has been used by every religion to keep people in check since time began. this is the same as hate of blashpemy.

There is also Justice, where those opposed to the common good are destroyed, this is the same as hate of the wicked.

Yes, "Justice" is good. "Holiness" is also OK... or maybe "Righteousness" instead. The two overlap a lot, but "Justice" has more secular connotations whereas "Righteousness" is more theological...

Originally Posted by dustinzgirl

Plus, hate of wicked is also shown in unity...so thats not really a different virtue.

Yes, it's true that there is a lot of redundancy in the list. But that's acceptable. The ones about obedience to authority and hate of outsiders are important, so it's OK if they are represented in several variants.

The rest of you also had good suggestions. Inspired by these, I now have the following:

* Obedience (prevents masses from rebelling and rulers from sympathizing).
* Tradition/Orthodoxy (prevents rebellion and change).
* Legitimacy/Lawfulness (control).
* Unity/Purity (unity with one's own people only, leading to hate of outsiders).
* Justice (hate of everyone different).
* Righteousness (keeps religion from evolving).

I'm not entirely happy about the Unity/Purity/Oneness one, so more suggestions for fixing that are still welcome.

[mixa]

Greed - as from Gordon Gekko from Wall Street......

Ambition - I feel this virtue is ncessary for greatness but can lead people to do terrible things.

Not sure if those two virtues correspond to your request, but thought I would throw it in there for consideration anyway.

[dustinzgirl]

Adultery. That'll keep the women in line.


(its a joke, guys, a joke!)

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by mixa

Greed - as from Gordon Gekko from Wall Street......

How is greed a virtue?

Originally Posted by mixa

Ambition - I feel this virtue is ncessary for greatness but can lead people to do terrible things.

Yeah, it may be necessary for greatness, but "greatness" is not considered a desirable thing by the masters behind the Iquinian Church. Rather, people should be kept down, as "great" people tend to disturb the order.

[Interference]

Just a minor thing about definition:

Originally Posted by Spectrum

* Chastity/sexual decency (because sex is dangerous and can lead people astray).

I thing "chastity" is imposed on us by religions because it gives us something to feel guilty about and when we feel guilty we turn to our gods to absolve us.

I think also that it's a control issue that reviles promiscuity because that would be too much fun - and a health hazard.

One other virtue might be Altruism/Charity (if it hasn't been mentioned before) because that absolves the state of some responsibility to its citizens.

I think you covered Faith, but Hope is another Christian virtue which is imposed, of course, to make us happy about suffering as long as the after life is all sweetness and light.

Have you thought of inverting the Deadly Sins? Gluttony becomes Productivity; Lust becomes Platonic Love; Avarice becomes Benificence and so forth.

I think it's a fascinating concept, discovering the 'virtues' that conceal their evil behind the veil of community spirit.

Originally Posted by Spectrum

This idea is pretty new as of yet, so nothing is carved in stone.

, eh? I love that!

[Peter Graham]

Unity/Pureness/Oneness - Patriotism?

Regards,

Peter

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Interference

Just a minor thing about definition:

I thing "chastity" is imposed on us by religions because it gives us something to feel guilty about and when we feel guilty we turn to our gods to absolve us.

Yes, I believe so too (among other reasons). But in my world, sex really IS dangerous, because it is one of the gateways to understanding some things about the world which the founders of Iquinianism do not want known. (If anyone knows the role-playing game Kult, the premise is similar.)

Originally Posted by Interference

I think also that it's a control issue that reviles promiscuity because that would be too much fun - and a health hazard.

I think it's rather a means of enforcing husbands' right of ownership over their wives (and parents' right of ownership over their unmarried daughters).

Originally Posted by Interference

One other virtue might be Altruism/Charity (if it hasn't been mentioned before) because that absolves the state of some responsibility to its citizens.

I think you covered Faith, but Hope is another Christian virtue which is imposed, of course, to make us happy about suffering as long as the after life is all sweetness and light.

Have you thought of inverting the Deadly Sins? Gluttony becomes Productivity; Lust becomes Platonic Love; Avarice becomes Benificence and so forth.

I think it's a fascinating concept, discovering the 'virtues' that conceal their evil behind the veil of community spirit.

These suggestions are good, thanks. I'll take them into consideration.

[Birol]

Mores against promiscuity are more about knowing the paternity of the kids being raised. It's difficult to not know who a child's mother is, but it's harder to determine who the father is in a promiscuous society, especially without the benefit of science. If a male is to expend his time, energy, resources, and bestow a legacy, regardless of what form the legacy takes, he needs to know that the child is his offspring, thus he needs to know the woman is not sleeping around with other men.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Birol

Mores against promiscuity are more about knowing the paternity of the kids being raised. It's difficult to not know who a child's mother is, but it's harder to determine who the father is in a promiscuous society, especially without the benefit of science. If a male is to expend his time, energy, resources, and bestow a legacy, regardless of what form the legacy takes, he needs to know that the child is his offspring, thus he needs to know the woman is not sleeping around with other men.

Yes. This was more of less what I was alluding to in my last post.

[lin robinson]

One of my mother's stock phrases when somebody was being dissed was, "Well, at least he's consistent." So there's a virtue. He might be a serial killer with a ritual MO, but is he consistent?