Thanks. Thanks A Lot.

[Wiggum]

Actually just want to say after finishing Bonehunters that the reason I delved into Erikson was this forum.

Now I'm addicted to his version of fantasy crack and I have to spend $30 to get Reapers Gale in a trade paperback from a specialty dealer who's imported it, lol.

Martin still reigns supreme for me, but these six books have been an utterly amazing and enjoyable ride.

Jeebus, Karsa, Icarium and Rhulad all together......barely want to think about it.

And I agree with previous arguments that I've read that Kalam, well, should have been more final.

[Peeves]

You might be a bit dissapointed by the Karsa-Icarium-Rhulad trio though, the rest of the book is good.

[Wiggum]

lol, Thanks. Thanks A Lot.

[dwndrgn]

Oh my you made me laugh out loud! I generally have the patience (just barely) to at least wait for the paperback version of my habit.

[Jason_Taverner]

feed your habit hahaha,

[Rane Longfox]

Heheh, good news You're welcome, glad you enjoy them!

You won't be dissapointed though

[Wiggum]

So I'm going to designate this thread as spoilers allowed through Bonehunters

And am going to start with the easier questions, what's the difference between a Soletaken and a D'ivers?

I'm assuming a Soletaken is born unto a humanoid race, and can shift it's form when it chooses. It seems from what I've read a D'ivers is almost a mixed race unto itself, born unto its form and doesn't change.

Wrong, right, and why were they both following the path of the hand towards ascendancy (aka, why are they related to eachother, not physically, but within Erikson's mind and my reading) ?

[Rane Longfox]

Mostly wrong D'ivers are just another form of Soletaken, really. They're, as far as we know, all humanoid, but while Soletaken can semble into a form of an animal (as far as we know, just one form - they can't change into others), D'ivers can semble into many versions of the same animal. Again, the animal doesn't vary for each D'ivers. The wolves hunting Icarium and Mappo in Deadhouse gates was a d'ivers, as were the Dhenrabi Fiddler had to fire a cusser at. Urm... oh yeah, plus the "merchant" that guided Felisin Heboric and Baundin for a while - he was a D'ivers rat(s) called Gryllen, iirc.

But yeah, they're basically two kinds of shapeshifter. D'ivers are generally more powerful, for obvious numerical advantage. On the other hand, shapeshifting certainly seems to affect the person's mind - most of them are insane, and always stay in their animal forms - d'ivers are affected by this significantly more than soletaken, hence the impression maybe that they don't change...

[Wiggum]

Ever read one of your own posts and say "what?"

Edited to make sense.

Every Soletaken of note has had it's human form, I don't remember any D'ivers with one that has been introduced.

I forget the name of the D'ivers released in Bonehunters, but unless you can point a passage were Erikson explains it as something that has completely lost its mind (which you may well be able to do), I can't believe it was ever any tangible race. And anything undead, or with ice under it's nails doesn't count.

[Rane Longfox]

Originally Posted by Wiggum

Really?

Every Soletaken of note has had it's human form, I don't remember any D'ivers with one that has been introduced.

Dessimbelackis

[Wiggum]

Alrighty, then.

But if Dragons, from what it seems like, are the provence of Soletaken can D'ivers really be deemed as more powerful?

And, uhm, lol, I do have more pertinent questions, rofl, oh wait, hell no.

Treach is a Soletaken right? So is Anomander, right?

The Deragoth were a match for the unleashing of the pentultimate D'ivers, hell the Hounds of Shadow were well nigh it's match. Karsa Orlong killed two Deragoth, the ultimate D'ivers didn't. By logic, Karsa pw3ns the d'ivers, yet not the Soletaken. Karsa vs Rake, I'm taking Rake. There's a philosopihical difference between the two. I'm not sure what it is, but it's there.

[baldur27]

heres how I ungerstand it a D'ivers is one mind housed in multiple bodys whilst a soletaken is someone who can shapechange but its also possible to be both at once

[Jason_Taverner]

Unless they spend too much time in their soultaken form and they loose their humianty and become more beast. Remember Trake was the first hero until he spent to much time as the wolf.

Dragons come about as soultaken as there is two kinds of dragons. Real from birth Dragon 100% real Dragons also know as Elient, (spelling?), as for soultaken it seems they come about from an asscendent drinking the blood of a dead/dieing Dragon.

I think I am correct Rane?

[Rane Longfox]

Originally Posted by Jason_Taverner

Unless they spend too much time in their soultaken form and they loose their humianty and become more beast. Remember Trake was the first hero until he spent to much time as the wolf.

Dragons come about as soultaken as there is two kinds of dragons. Real from birth Dragon 100% real Dragons also know as Elient, (spelling?), as for soultaken it seems they come about from an asscendent drinking the blood of a dead/dieing Dragon.

I think I am correct Rane?

Well, Trake/Treach was a tiger, not a wolf

As for the Elient... it's hard to say. There are pure-blood elient, such as the otataral dragon we see in House of Chains, and then there are soletaken, yes. But, we've only had it confirmed that Scabandari, Anomander and Silchas Ruin drank from the blood of Tiam (not just any dragon, mind - it has to be Tiam, as far as we know). But also, people such as Lady Envy, Menandore, Rud Ellale and others who haven't drunk any of her blood are also elient soletaken. Hence the impression that it's also, to a certain extent, hereditary. And yet Phaed and Nimander Golit, who we meet in Bonehunters, but are bigger characters in Reaper's Gale, are NOT soletaken, despite being Rake's grandchildren.

Basically, we don't know what exactly makes an elient soletaken, but it's a safe bet it's not just one answer

[Jason_Taverner]

Originally Posted by Rane Longfox

Well, Trake/Treach was a tiger, not a wolf

I always do that keep thinking of Togg and Fanderay, can't be the tiger of summer if you aren't a bloody tiger now can ya.

Do we know for a fact that Phaed and Nimander Golit are NOT soul taken, could it be because they are so many generations after Rake they have not received the soultaken powers, or do you think there is a chance Nimander Golit could come into them later,