Swearing in books

[Moraven]

depends on two things: your characters, and the image (of yourself) that you want to project. If the characters would swear (and i write a lot of military scifi and military fantasy, so the oppurtunities come up frequently) then they should. However, I do try to limit it. This is so that if people like, say, my little brother want to read my work, i can let them. I don't cut it all, becuase that wouldn't be true to real life, but i don't swear constatnly or very harshly so as not to get that image as a write.

[Theed]

Originally Posted by Lith

I was always under the impression that to properly swear in books you had to have them put their hand on a Bible and repeat the magic words....

But then, books don't have hands, do they? Oh, dear.


I really feel that in most books, and certainly most fantasy books, cussing should be kept to a minimum. It just feels so wrong in a fantasy setting (especially the substitute swearword variety)- it breaks the spell or something. It's basically slang, which should also be kept out of books. Kids these days say "like" as much as the F-word, but you don't see anyone worrying about the artistic value like adds to the author's work, do you?

The word cussing and swearing are interchangable.


Swearing

1. To make a solemn declaration, invoking a deity or a sacred person or thing, in confirmation of and witness to the honesty or truth of such a declaration.
2. To make a solemn promise; vow.
3. To use profane oaths; curse.
4. Law To give evidence or testimony under oath.

Keeping like out of dialogue is the same as keeping the umm, uhh, and what not out. You don't write dialogue exactly as you would speak, otherwise it'd be stiff and uninteresting. Not only that, but swearing has been around for a very long time, and has been a part of language people speak much moreso than putting 'like' in between every three words. Not only would I be trying to bring out realism from the era that I'm writing in, but I'd also want to bring out the character's personality. Not everyone went around in the year 1100 with a perfectly clean mouth, and while I do not intend to replicate that exactly, I do believe it gives more of the feel of that day in age. Again, it depends on what you write and what you're aiming for.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Teresa Edgerton

You don't want to bore your readers, even when boredom would be realistic, and there comes a time when repetition of the same expletive simply becomes tedious.

In my own case, as a reader, I find that characters who swear a lot just to show that they're tough and cool make my eyes glaze over before very long. Do I really want to read the same reference to maternal fornication fourteen times on the same page? I think not. (Not unless I'm twelve years old and I find the word itself, regardless of its context, hilariously funny.)

Not to mention the fact that once a moment of genuinely high emotion comes along it's not going to have much dramatic impact if the character simply repeats the same word he or she has been saying, in every sort of situation, for the last hundred pages. If, "oh, f---k" means "well, ok," and "I forgot to set my VCR," how can it also mean "this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire life"?

My advice would be to use it sparingly, so that each time you do use it, it has the desired impact ... whatever that impact might be.

Thanks, Teresa; that makes a point I should have included but failed to. Anything when done repetitively can become boring, so be careful of that as well. This is something that was a problem with much of older sf -- especially those stories which were serialized -- a sort of internal recap or rehash of things that had gone before. Those that were written as synopses could be excised, but there were quite a few stories where it was done as part of the actual story, and so when published together, it became redundant and put a bad cramp in the flow as well.

Even China Mieville did a bit of overuse of profanity in one or two places, where the words simply became a bit annoying ... wasted verbiage. So, while there's nothing wrong with using any words, you want them all to count and have the full impact intended for that work, and should therefore keep that in mind.

Keeping like out of dialogue is the same as keeping the umm, uhh, and what not out. You don't write dialogue exactly as you would speak, otherwise it'd be stiff and uninteresting.

Not so much stiff, as disorganized, rambling. The way most people speak wanders all over the map, really, and when read on a page, it can be very confusing, rather than stiff or formal.

[Theed]

Stiff probably wasn't the right word, but yes, it makes for, in my opinion, a very uninteresting dialogue. Like you said, it would just ramble on and on.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Theed

... it would just ramble on and on.

Uh-oh.... having a Python moment here.....

[Frank menser]

Gadzucks says I!
you can't deny
The steaming verbs in prose.
There are those who yearn
To let them burn.
Tis 'free speech' I suppose.

I can't deny
I do decry
The purpling of the page.
I prefer mine neat
And verbally sweet
Those coarse tones make me rage!

Profanity is an art practiced by too many with too little skill. Thus opinionated am I...Damn it!

~Frank

at attempts to launder

[Duchessprozac]

Originally Posted by Frank menser

Profanity is an art practiced by too many with too little skill. Thus opinionated am I...Damn it!

I really don't agree with this. Often a character uses profanity as they are not the kind of person able to string a verbose and poetic insult together.

Also many people swear when under pressure or angry as it is an instant stress reliever that use of any other word would not suffice at that given time.

I must add, that in my current work, My characters swear where people would normally use religious profanity (By the Gods, damn, Hell, etc.) as there is no religion in my world for these terms to make sense so they use sexual and scatalogical cursing instead. Yes, it makes the work much courser but it is internally consistent with my world.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Culhwch

But that can quickly become laughable, which may or may not be helpful. Not that I'm saying yours are laughable, Py...

Can't claim any credit for any of them, Cul - they're all quotes from well-known authors and TV series.

[Lith]

Theed- I was just punning. I know they're interchangeable.


The ums, uhs, likes, and swear words all fall into the same category of filler words. Swear words can ge beyond that to actual swearing, but a good percentage of them are just filling space, and that's largely why they need to be taken out of dialogue- rather than strengthen a phrase, they often end up weakening it, or act like crutches to properly strong language.

I see no reason older forms of English were not filled with likes, uhs, and ums; but not being proper words they wouldn't have written them down. In fact tracing the history of swear words is difficult because they were so infrequently written down, not being "proper" words then. Considering the time involved, writing was for important things which naturally required a bit more thought and formality (like dressing for dinner), so it's understandable they left a lot of little vulgarities out of it.

Which is not to say that one must always leave swear words out, only that a lot of them can be left out with no negative (and probably with positive) results.

[Theed]

Originally Posted by Lith

Theed- I was just punning. I know they're interchangeable.


The ums, uhs, likes, and swear words all fall into the same category of filler words. Swear words can ge beyond that to actual swearing, but a good percentage of them are just filling space, and that's largely why they need to be taken out of dialogue- rather than strengthen a phrase, they often end up weakening it, or act like crutches to properly strong language.

I see no reason older forms of English were not filled with likes, uhs, and ums; but not being proper words they wouldn't have written them down. In fact tracing the history of swear words is difficult because they were so infrequently written down, not being "proper" words then. Considering the time involved, writing was for important things which naturally required a bit more thought and formality (like dressing for dinner), so it's understandable they left a lot of little vulgarities out of it.

Which is not to say that one must always leave swear words out, only that a lot of them can be left out with no negative (and probably with positive) results.

I blame late-nightitis on no humor

I do agree with you that a lot of swear words that I've read can be left out. I think if one would use them, they need to be used in a way that does not take away from the dialogue, but adds to it. Like a lot of others have said, and I agree, using them too much gets old quick. I think if they're used sparringly and if the character would actually say what is said, and if it adds to a certain section, then I believe it's okay.

[MissGuidedFee]

I sometimes use swearing in stories I've written,then sometimes I don't. Im not really aware of it most of the time, it usually just comes naturally depending on the character! I didn't even realise a certain piece had swearing in it until I posted it here and the site blanked the word out.

[Daniel Hetberg]

In one book I read (The Bourne Ultimate, by Robert Ludlum) I found one character's tendency to swear rather distracting and annoying. I don't mind the occasional swear word here and there, if it's used to actually make a point (as good swearing should), but if it is reduced to a filler word, as Lith said, it just becomes distracting and annoying.

[Green]

Originally Posted by pyan

Can't claim any credit for any of them, Cul - they're all quotes from well-known authors and TV series.

Probably not ones I enjoy to read/watch What works for some, doesn't work for others.

[dustinzgirl]

I write some, well, less than appropriate content in some cases. I like to cuss. I drop f-bombs and the c-word and b-word like they are the only words on the planet. Why? I have no idea. Its fun, it irritates people. But that doesn't mean I write like that for every character in every story. IWhen I'm writing adult stuff, then those words are appropriate.

But in general fantasy/sci fi, cuss words should be used sparingly if ever. And you have to beware the context. I doubt a 10,000 year old Alien would use the F word ever. But the 15 year old meeting the alien just might say "F---me!" The only cuss word I can see being used a lot in fantasy is "damn" or "be damned" but then it is a curse, not a cuss. Even the word cuss used to be a curse as in "You're a nasty little cuss, ain't ya"

So in the end it boils down to: the type of story you are writing; the type of reader you are writing for; the type of characters in the story.

It has to make sense. Thats why nobody blinks when Stephen King uses the F and B words, or some of the adult novels. But if Orson Scott Card or Jane Yolen did, people would hate the stories.

And then, the made up words I also like, becuase they can be used to signify a culture...for example, Americans rarely say "bloody this" but Britts do. In Mexico you would curse someones family to piss them off (and the do get ticked) but in America we are more likely to attack the person directly. Then there are fantasy curses, I can totally see a dwarf saying "Your mother's beard was full of lice" as a curse, but an elf wouldn't say that, an elf would probably say something about the person's natural place on earth being damned or disgusting.

Point being, cursing done well doesn't HAVE to use any cuss words at all. But it should be relative to teh speaker's culture for maximum impact.

Cussing also does two things: It relieves the speakers frustration and irritates the listener.

[j. d. worthington]

Again, it comes to what the "swearing" is for. Most of our "curse words" -- cussing -- began as perfectly legitimate words that fell out of favor due to replacement by other languages -- a lot of those in English being Anglo-Saxon words which became "vulgar" as the Norman-French and Latin influences took over. Until then, they had simply been the same words in Anglo-Saxon as an equivalent word in Latin, Norman-French, Hindi, or Sanskrit (or any other language). However, using those words in modern writing would have a different connotation now because of history.

On the other hand, some words were always used as either literal curses (damn, for instance) or for increased emphasis (no actual content to the word other than to increase -- or express, if used alone -- the ability to convey the speaker's meaning or emotional state).

What Dustie says about cursewords -- either literal curses or expletives -- is quite true: Fiona Macleod's (William Sharp, that is) "The Sin Eater" has some very vituperative Gaelic curses which, in context, are both very powerful expressions of the character's emotions, and convey something very important about that person's culture... and are also, in context of that particular story, rather chilling, as they may be more than empty words -- they may have a literal effect as curses.

On the other hand, made-up profanity is very difficult to pull off without sounding inane, stupid, or stilted. I would argue that King's "The Jaunt" is such a case -- a very good story, but the cursing used there comes off feeling made-up, artificial, rootless ... and therefore silly... which mars an otherwise excellent tale (not spoils, but it does mar). So such "created cursing" should be used with caution. The best writers use it even more sparingly than the real thing, and come as close to the real thing as possible within the milieu of their world: "Adrazat's teats!" or "Melchior's balls", for instance, because then the reader actually has enough difference to add a bit about the culture of that tale, but enough familiarity to have impact as profanity. In other words, it carries the emotion it would within that place and time. Whereas when we have someone in Dante's Commedia saying "A fig on thee", we may vaguely know it's some sort of insult, but the context is lacking, so it loses the majority of its impact.

Which goes back to what I was saying earlier: You want to be realistic (or, more precisely, to have verisimilitude) with your writing, so as not avoid such words where they fit; but, as with any other sort of writing -- say, for example, someone who tends to have florid speech, or who uses very simple terms, or a poetic idiom -- you want to use it so that it actually has the impact it's intended to have and not just become white noise (unless, of course, that's the intention ... which should very seldom be the case; say, if you're trying to sketch a character for whom such words are empty counters bereft of any meaning, just sounds they'd make the same way they would grunt or use some other non-word).