The Tolkien Quoting Trivia

[pyan]

Of course it is, Nesa! You to go.....

[Marky Lazer]

I knew it was Bregalad's Lament, but where can I find it again where it says what it means?

[pyan]

Sorry, Marky - I didn't notice that the reference Nesa gave was only in Quenya, without a translation.

Still open, then!

[Nesacat]

Oops sorry ... the translation is in Letters

Orofarne is mountain-dwelling (Letters 224)
Lassemista is from lasse, which is leaf ( Letters 283)
Lassemista is leaf grey (Letters 224)
Carnimirie is with adornment of red jewels (Letters 224)

[pyan]

Yes, they're in Letters 168 - To Richard Jeffery.
(Easier to quote the letter number, than the page ref, Cat!)
Take it away, formidable feline....

[Nesacat]

Thanks Pyan and sorry. Here's a string of coloured bells.

This one's easy and it's also from one of my favourite paragraphs of the book and I love the image.

'They cannot conquer forever!'

[Marky Lazer]

What do you want to know about the quote, Nesa dear? That it's the final paragraph of Journey To The Cross-roads?

[Nesacat]

Sorry Marky ... am apparently quite hopeless at this game. I was wanting to know who said it and where and what it was describing.

[Nesacat]

I seem to have totally hung up the thread, so shall withdraw my question and retreat relatively gracefully into the shadows to watch.

*Leaves behind basket of bells on ribbons*

[Marky Lazer]

Why don't we revive this bugger then?

Chris, who is responsible for the creation of Trolls?

[pyan]

Well, this is a thorny one!
In Middle-earth, it appears to be Sauron, (the Olog-Hai):

"That Sauron bred them none doubted, though from what stock was not known."

LotR - Appendix F - Of Other Races.

Is this what you had in mind? or do I need to dig more?

[Marky Lazer]

I'm not sure what I meant... How about this line:

‘Maybe you have heard of Trolls? They are mighty strong. But Trolls are only counterfeits, made by the Enemy in the Great Darkness, in mockery of Ents, as Orcs were of Elves [,’ said Treebeard].

The Lord of the Rings, The TwoTowers, Treebeard.

But then, take into consideration this as well:

I think I agree about the ‘creating by evil’. But you are more free with the word ‘creation’ than I am.* Treebeard does not say that the Dark Lord ‘created’ Trolls and Orcs. He says he ‘made’ them in counterfeit of certain creature pre-existing. There is, to me, a wide gulf between the two statements, so wide that Treebeard’s statement could (in my world) have possibly been true.

* Inside this mystical history (as its metaphysic is, not necessarily as a metaphysic of the real World) Creation, the act of Will of Eru the One that gives Reality to conceptions, is distinguished from Making, which is permissive.

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 153, To Peter Hastings (draft), p. 190.

I think in the end, it ought to be Eru, really... so feel free to dig deeper, but not before you post a new question!

[pyan]

Ok....
Who's dwelling was "West of West"?

[Marky Lazer]

Mightier than Este is Nienna, sister of the Feanturi [...] Her halls are west of West, upon the borders of the world; and she comes seldom to the city of Valimar where all is glad.

The Silmarillion, Valaquenta.

[pyan]

Spot on....take one bell, and away you go!