Origins within Midkemia

[nixie]

I think it was the end of Assassins,Jimmy had his eye on a shop were the owner was presumed missing or dead he reappears at the end of the book and Jimmy pays him a visit it is never said right out he's the upright man but it's implied.
Also if my memory serves me correctly,Marcos was the one who left Pug at Crydee.Pug thought he may have been related to Marcos and was worried about his relationship with Miranda.It seems his parentage was normal but Marcos sensed greatness in him

[Arch-Indar]

Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian

Just thought I would start a thread to discuss the peoples and events of Midkemia.

Do we ever find out anything about Pug's origins, his parents etc etc?

Come on Macros tells Pug, his father was a soldier, and his mother was a maid. He told Pug in the Serpent War Saga.

[Sinak-Rune]

Originally Posted by Tyranus

I do believe he is revieled in Either the end of Assassins or the beginning of Tear of the Gods.

I rememebr that, its when Duke James (Jimmy the Hand), is with his wife Gamina, and with his brother Lysle (the second upright man). James tells Lysle their brothers in "Rage of a Demon King"

[shandril]

Originally Posted by Tyranus

I do believe he is revieled in Either the end of Assassins or the beginning of Tear of the Gods.

It was the end of Assassins where he went to check him out on the pretence that that his name had turned up on a list of persons murdered but it was more to inform him things were back to normal but even at the end of the conversation he's only almost certain it was the upright man.

[dragula_66]

Originally Posted by Winters_Sorrow

Oh TM, the Mocker leader who is actually revealed is in Shadow of the Dark Queen I think - when Midkemia gets invaded. I think he's called the "Sagacious Man" or something.

Your right, it was the Sagacious man whos identity became known, i think it was in rise of a merchant prince. However you need to remember back to um... i THINK it was Krondor: the betrayal (the one with owen and goreth), where we meet that character for the first time (but i dont think he is the mockers leader at that point). He has gone by several different names, but i wont reveal any in case it ruins anything for somebody reading the books involved.

[The Upright Man]

Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian

Just edited a spoiler warning on your last post mate - my first moderator action!!

I am now reading A Darkness of Sethanon mate. Do we ever find out the identity of the Uprightman? He is such a cool character. I imagine him to perhaps be a known person - not necessarily known to the reader but at least somebody of note. Please do not tell me his name if this is true. I am glad to see Thomas and Pug finally meeting up in this book, since they left Crydee there has a been little to no interaction between the two.

thers lysle from the serpentwar and the original jimmy met on the ned of the Krondor:TotG

[Hocho]

The uprightman i believe was mentioned by Duke James while talking to Lysle Riggers in Rage of a Demon King. It was said he was a baker (i think) of no paticular significance.But interestingly Dash(Duke James grandson)has become the new uprightman while i believe his brother has become duke of krondor,both has become one half of his(DukeJames) personality.Also in The Kings Buccaneer Tomas's parents are mention as Calis visits them regularly.

[Hocho]

To Arch-Indar, Macross was notorious for fibbing and embelishing who's to say he wasnt lying about Pug's Hertiage.Maybe even to spare him of some offal truth.

[woodsman]

The original leader of the mockers was, I beleive, the Squareman who first created mothers. After him came the first Uprightman who was lysle and Jimmy's father. He was disposed by a lutenant Known only as the Virtuousman.
Lysle (Jimmy the hands' brother) replaced him and was known as the Sagaciousman- see rise of a Merchant Prince- he later renamed himslef the Uprightman at Duke James request to indicate he would aid the Duke.

Lysle died during the battle of Krondor and was replaced by Dashel Jameson: his great nephew, who presumably still leads the mockers during the Conclave of Shadows Triology, although he is not mentioned. I think names are mentioned in the books but cannot remember them.

Is the temple of Arhch-Indar ever mentioned aain significantly in the series, i haven't finished reading the Darkwar books yet but just wondered if it was maentioned.

[Fake Vencar]

The Arch-Indar temple isn't significantly mentioned again i am afraid. Well, i don't remember it anyway

[woodsman]

Damn,
Oh well thanks anyways. I kind of enjoyed the religoin/philosophy discussions aspect of those books.

[Balinor]

SPOILERS

Originally Posted by The Master™

There are several leaders of the Mockers... But The Upright Man identity is never revealed...

I thought we found out that he was Jimmy's dad (ok although no names at least we have a relationship)

[woodsman]

Yeah one of them was, the orignal uprightman ( see me post above). I dont think it does give a name, but does give a profession and I think the book needed is Rage of a Daemon King from the SerpentWar Saga.

[Fake Vencar]

Rage of a Demon King is the right book. I'm just about to read it, so i'll post the name when i get there abouts

[Fake Vencar]

RoaDK, page 259 in my version.

James and Lysle are brothers. There mother was murdered when James was a toddler, Lysle was 7. Lysle was packed off to Romney, James raised by Mockers. Lysle found it funny that his foster parents raised him to work as a thief in Krondor. Their father was the original Upright Man, a surly and evil chandler called Donald, who had a shop down by the south point near the palace.