Thoughts on Jacob

[Ian8781]

People at my work had a loooooooooooooooong chat about Jacob. Here's what we came up with.

The island is definitely a "waiting room for the dead" before they go to heaven or hell. It helps the dead to accept their death before entering their new home for eternity - whichever it may be.

God and Satan are infact one being - each struggling for power. It would appear that Satan is currently winning this battle. Jacob is the name given to the God/Satan being who can manifest himself in various ways. (God can appear as Jack's Father, Kate's Horse, Walt, - infact all the visions experienced on the island. Satan chooses to represent himself as the black smoke monster).

Satan gives instructions to Ben by appearing to him as Jacob. While this is happening, Satan is surpressing the entity of God. The words "Help Me" heard by Locke are in fact those of God, in a desperate plea to be released from the Devil's power. Satan gave Ben instructions to kill Locke, becuase he is afraid that Locke might just be able to help God free himself.


Alright - the theory is a little far fetched, but so far seems to fit the facts. I would be very interested in your opinons.

[TK-421]

A sort of purgatory...

Interesting theory. Compared to some of the others I have heard or read, as plausible as the one that say's it's all going on in Hurley's head.

I personally, have no clue at this piont. This whole introduction of the "magic box" and Jacob have thrown me for a loop.

[Brown Rat]

I'm leaning more toward the theory that Jacob is an entity that people have treated as a god in the past but isn't really a god. Somehow, people's thoughts/spirits shape him. "Good" people like Locke have an affinity for the island because Jacob wants to be shaped by them. The Others (who predate Ben on the island--coming from the pirate ship, in part) shape Jacob for "bad" stuff, which is why Jacob asks Locke to "help me." Ben wants Locke to kill so that Locke will be "bad" too.

To tell you the truth, I just don't want the island to be purgatory and the whole story to turn out to be heaven versus hell. That's too . . . done before.

[TK-421]

Sorry to burst you bubble Ian8781, but if you watched the special recap of all the secrets revealed so far hosted by the show's Producers: Carson Cuse and Damon Lindehoff that aired last night on ABC, your theory was put aside.

Here's what they said: "There is a theory that the characters are in some sort of purgatory but we have both said that they aren't and they are very much alive and breathing and somewhere in the space-time continuum."

[Steve Jordan]

Jacob doesn't exist. He is, in fact, an invention of Ben's, used to keep others in line. This goes in keeping with the level of lies and deceit that are Ben's chief method of control over the others.

Ben used the magician's best tricks, suggesting a seeming impossibility, then distracting the audience with noise and pyrotechnics before they learn the truth... and like that, you are distant from the illusion, and the event is over. If Locke had had the sense to go back in there and look for the strings, he would have found them (which, unfortunately, shows how gullible Locke has always proven to be).

[Dave]

If the voice Locke heard was Jacob then Jacob does exist (whether the flying objects were created by Ben or not.)

I like your theory and it is practically the same as the one I had come to myself. I don't care what Carson Cuse and Damon Lindehoff say unless it appears in an episode. And even if it is not a higher plane of Hell, there is some religious significance to the Island. Just look at all the religious symbolism they use in the show.

Jacob is either Satan or he is the Island itself.

[TK-421]

Satan? I thought Satan didn't exist. Anyways, he may be the Island itself trying to communicate with the one person left alive who is "in tune" with it. But, why did it allow Eko to be killed if he was also "in tune" with the Island. Unless Eko actually learned something that Locke has not. There has to be a significance to his death. Another possibility is that Ben could be the one person the Island - Jacob - believes he can best manipulate or control.

[Steve Jordan]

The only thing Eko's death proved is that sometimes, the brave, the intelligent, the redeemed, the good, die anyway. Just as in life.

But if you want, you can consider it a sign that Eko's efforts had simply not been enough to redeem him in the eyes of "the island."

I think Lost's overall plot is more of a socio-political allegory than a religious one (see this thread). From that basis, Eko might represent the embodiment of the Third World: Large and powerful, thrust unwillingly into the intrigues of the rest of the world (the Survivors and the Others), and trusting in Divine Providence to lead him to salvation... but ultimately destroyed by forces beyond his control, forces that may even have been unleashed by the conflict between the Survivors and the Others.

But we were talking about Jacob...

Jacob may have existed once (though we saw no evidence of him in Ben's backstory, did we?). Now Ben invokes Jacob's spirit to keep the others in line, much as a present-day leader invokes the spirit (and speeches) of past leaders to keep his followers on the right path. Here there are parallels with Soviet revisionist history, as leaders attributed their forefathers with words and actions that, in fact, were not theirs, but invented by a propaganda machine for the leadership's benefit.

[Dave]

So, who's voice did Locke hear in Jacob's house, if not Jacob?

I could easily believe that Ben set up the noise and pyrotechnics in a magician's trick as you described. That would not be beyond Ben and would fit everything we have seen about him.

The voice was not part of his plan. Ben did not hear it and begged John to tell him what he had heard. That part was obviously genuine.

Even if there is no "Jacob", or if he has died, left, or whatever, then there is still this disembodied voice, a voice heard in 'Jacob's House' and therefore we might as well call it Jacob.

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by Dave

The voice was not part of his plan. Ben did not hear it and begged John to tell him what he had heard. That part was obviously genuine.

Again, Ben is an accomplished liar and showman, so I don't buy this 100% either. Although, I suppose there's the possibility that Locke, desperate to believe, allowed his mind to "invent" the voice.

So maybe there once was a Jacob, and Ben is simply pretending his spirit is still there.

[Atlantean]

How does that explain the flash forwards ?

[Steve Jordan]

The only thing we know for sure from the flash-forwards is that Jack regrets something that happened on the island, and that he wishes he could go back to change or fix it. We do not have enough information to even guess at what he regrets, or what he would do to change things... and for that matter, we don't even know for sure who is worse off because of whatever happened. Ultimately, the flash-forward tells us nothing besides the fact that Jack is unhappy, and Kate would like to forget.

[TK-421]

I say it has to do with Locke.

On ABC.COM, there is a 2 minute sneak peek of the premiere on Jan. 31 where Jack tells Kate he will kill Locke .

[Steve Jordan]

Originally Posted by TK-421

I say it has to do with Locke.

On ABC.COM, there is a 2 minute sneak peek...

But will he? Who knows? Besides, this is about Jacob. Jacob is one of Ben's tools. I don't believe he exists. I'm not sold on whether Locke really believes in Jacob, or just sees the whole thing as an elaborate gag designed to con people.

On the other hand, Locke has proven himself to be highly susceptible to suggestion, and may have doubts. Don't be surprised if Locke goes back to the shack, without Ben, to see what happens. Maybe eventually Locke comes to believe himself as Jacob's disciple, or voice.

[Tilion]

Regarding the voice John heard inside the hut...You guys are aware that for a second or two we actually got to see a long-haired figure sitting at the table?