Elves, etc.

[The Ace]

Originally Posted by Leisha

For example, apparently "Arthur", when literally translated, could mean "bear man", which, I don't know about anyone else, conjures up an image of a half-bear, half-man beast,

Barak, Earl of Trellheim,'Belgariad,' and 'Malloreon,' David Eddings.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Originally Posted by Leisha

If I can just hijack this thread... What's the title of your book, Teresa/Madeline? I'd be interested to read it.

The book is scheduled for December, Leisha, and the title is A Dark Sacrifice. It's part two of a trilogy. The first book is The Hidden Stars.

There will be more about the new book in my sub-forum here, as time goes on.

[Leisha]

I'll be keeping a lookout, Teresa! Thank you.

and 'Malloreon,' David Eddings.

I've already added Eddings onto my list of must-read authors, so I'll probably find out about this one soon...
Currently reading: David Gemmell's "The Midnight Falcon", which is very good so far! (I'd never read any of his before, but went to the library after reading about him in his dedicated thread.

Oh, and to keep this post on-track, I haven't yet read a single orc, elf, or dwarf in "The Midnight Falcon"... shows it can be done! And there's not one dragon either (which is actually a shame! ).

[John Jarrold]

Re. elves and dwarves, yes, if you're a new writer in the adult market, writing intelligent fantasy, publishers tend to feel straightforward use of elves and dwarves is old hat. Obviously, there will be authors - like Christopher Paolini - who can be pointed at to deny this, but it's the truth for the major adult fantasy publishers, much more so than in the market for younger readers. As Teresa says, the game-related books also work within very tight parameters - most of these series have a 'bible', which tells the authors what they can and can't do - and races they have to use, to tie-in with the game world, which tends to be based very much on stripped-down Tolkienesque fantasy.

Teresa also hit the nail on the head when she said using Elves and Dwarves exactly like Tolkien is a problem. But there are certainly possibilities of using analogues - as Tad Williams did in THE DRAGONBONE CHAIR and its sequels. And dragons have many different uses, of course - as Naomi Novik has recently proved! But fantasy is a much broader field now, and you really don't have to tick boxes like 'Elder Races', 'Dark Lord in the East,' 'Magic Artifact, Such as Broken Sword', 'Boy/Girl Coming to Adulthood and Discovering Dark Secret About Their Past'...

[JDP]

I liked Julian May's take on elves and dwarves/goblins in the saga of the exiles. I can't remember what the races were called off the top of my head, but it worked well (devolved space-faring races trapped on Earth in the pleistocene epoch).

I think that as long as you make a race your own, it doesn't matter if they're a bit 'elfish' or whatever; they just need to be congruous with the world that you've created.

[Circus Cranium]

While Elves do tend to be the most common cliche of fantasy fiction, speculative fiction in general re-uses countless mythology based creatures. While I'd personally avoid elves because of the publishing stigma, I truly believe that you can make anything your own if you use your imagination, research and work at it.

Hell, how many ghost, vampire, shapeshifter stories are out there? But you can't say anyone cornered the market on ghosts. If you do choose an established creature however (like a ghost), you'd better make damn sure it's unique. But that's the challenge, which in my opinion, is half the fun.

[John Jarrold]

Amen...

[that old guy]

I wonder if there's more than a bit of self-selection in this thread, in the sense that the "average" poster on this site has probably read more of this type of fiction than the "average" or casual SFF book buyer. IOW, what may set our eyes rolling as the worst sort of cliche will still be fresh in the eyes of some readers.

As for myself, I thought the weakest parts of Terry Brooks' Armageddon's Children were all scenes with elves in them. Since I quite liked the book overall, I couldn't really figure out why I thought this. Perhaps it was simple boredom? Granted he's stuck with elves if he's going to link the Word and Void series to the Shannara books, but since "his" elves follow reasonably closely the Tolkien model, perhaps that's where that came from? Interesting, if so.

[John Jarrold]

People who get to the point of joining forums, or attending cons, or joining SF groups, are certainly not the average reader - the sort of person who runs into a bookshop on a wet Wednesday afternoon to pick up a bestseller to read on the train . What has certainly happened (in the UK) is that the fantasy authors who have been going for twenty or thirty years continue to sell extremely well, but anyone new who tries to write in the same way, or within the same parameters (Tolkienesque elves and dwarves, for instance), hasn't done well. So, happily, fantasy is a broader church than it once was.