Dr. Susan Calvin

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by davekyn

I'd say it's some readers that need to look a little deeper & slow down.

I'd tend to agree with that. There are a lot of layers to Susan... something I didn't quite pick up on consciously until I went back to Asimov's work again a few years ago. I think that's the problem with Asimov, some ways: he's often more subtle than he's given credit for, and (once he matured his style a bit) a much better writer than is evident at first blush. It's a bit like the old statement of those who do things so well that they make them look easy... until you try it yourself.....

[CatBar]

I was so pleased to read in manephelian's and eleniel's messages that they too liked/loved Daneel Olivaw.

I think I am in love with him myself. He sounds the ideal 'person' for me: handsome, elegant, superbly strong (see how he dealt with that bullying crewman Niss in 'Robots and Empire), dignified, controlled, loyal, patient....

And, at times, I too can well relate to Susan Calvin's preference for robots over people ("They're a cleaner better breed that we [humans]are"). I'm probably a bit of a Susan Calvin myself - without her tremendous brains, of course!

The cover of an American version 'Robots and Murder' has what I think is the most gorgeous image of Daneel on it (all smouldering bronze high-cheekbones etc!) - I'd love to be able to get hold of it but I'm from England so seems I would have to order it over Amazon from America.
Does anyone know of any other images/pics I might find of him? (Sad, I know!)

Oh, and does Daneel appear in any detail in Asimov's 'Foundation' series? I do actualy like Asimov's style of writing too - unlike a lot of modern SF writers he's so plain and clear and ungushy and one can just simply get to the story.

Lastly, as I'm new here, I don't want to make any gaffs: is there a difference between 'Post Reply' and 'Quick Messages'?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by CatBar

Oh, and does Daneel appear in any detail in Asimov's 'Foundation' series? I do actualy like Asimov's style of writing too - unlike a lot of modern SF writers he's so plain and clear and ungushy and one can just simply get to the story.

Daneel also appears in Prelude to Foundation and Foundation and Earth, as well as the short story "Mirror Image" (with Lije Baley). I understand he also appears in the Second Foundation Trilogy books, but as those are not by Asimov, I've not read them, so can't say in what capacity. On the two mentinoed above... you would probably want to read the series in its entirety, as there are a lot of references between the novels. In which case, the order of the sequence (by Asimov) would be:

Prelude to Foundation
Forward the Foundation
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge
Foundation and Earth

[ghost8772]

Daneel was a cool character, the penultimate holmes. was interesting to see his growth through the robot novels to the finished product at the end of Foundation and Earth.

as far as Dr. Calvin goes, she seemed "married" to her work. with a few times where emotions were dangled before her eyes. "Liar" is an excellent example of showing she has something like emtions. there was another story I can't recall the name, where the robot was heard to call her "momma" can't remember the name of the story though. but it underlines her ultimate point in life. she's married to robots, and has a robot child handed to her.

[j. d. worthington]

That one was "Lenny", about a robot who, due to the idle tampering of someone doing the guided tour of the factory (when someone else forgot to turn off the power to the console) ended up with a child's mentality... all the potential of the brightest of the robots, but frozen perpetually as an infant. A rather touching and disturbing story, and one of my personal favorites....

[manephelien]

Mine too. Another favorite is Liar! where you really get to see Susan Calvin's human side.

[CatBar]

Many thanks j.d.worthington for your response to my query as to which further books Daneel appears in. I'd better get going then on the Foundation series, which I've never yet read and which look seriously BIG!

[quote=ghost8772;921345]Daneel was a cool character, the penultimate holmes. was interesting to see his growth through the robot novels to the finished product at the end of Foundation and Earth. [quote]

Daneel was certainly cool OK - in all senses of the word (one of the things that turned me on, in the first place). Would be interested to know what a 'penultimate holmes' is.

Yes, I liked seeing Daneel's growth throughout the 4 Robot novels (he just kept getting cooler and smarter, eg that time when he tied up that bullying crewman Niss in knots [Robots and Empire] - wasn't hung up about hurting that human, not after he, Daneel, had programmed the Zeroth Law into himself. Good career move, I could say.

So I'm certainly looking forward to seeing 'the finished product' at the end of the Foundation novels.

It would be great to see any DVD that might come out of the Robot Novels (who might act Daneel I wonder?) I got fond of Elijah Baley too, as he got to loving Daneel like a friend, and I also got fond of Giskard too and was so sad when he 'expired' at the end of Robots and Empire.

They made a great threesome, Lije, Giskard and Daneel, and I wished they could've all gone on together for the next 20,000 years.

[ghost8772]

Daneel was altered at towards being a detective, (offscreen before his initial meeting with Lije) originally he didn't have much info/experience/data on HOW to do it. he got better at it, as well as getting somewhat better at being human, nearly indistinguishable in fact, after 20,000 years. Sherlock Holmes was written as a detective who could put together clues to solve a mystery. Daneel being a robot meant that emotion was not a factor, complete and total recall again a benefit, if he learned how to stitch this stuff together from Lije, then he would have become the best detective EVER, downside of this is that according to the laws of the time robots were not allowed to give evidence in any court of law.

The idea of LKije, Giskard and Daneel running through 20,000 years is an intriguing one, unfortunately for the 0th law to have taken full effect on Daneel, both Lije, and Giskard had to fall away from the fabric of life.

[Flavia]

I'm annoyed at sterotypical lassies.

One is beautiful and stupid

Calvin is mouse colored and smart, of course.

But I love the character anyway

[Abyssimal]

Calvin was an exceptionally endearing character - I think because of her overpowering intellect is off-set (or augmented if you prefer) by her insecurity.

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by ghost8772

Daneel was a cool character, the penultimate holmes. was interesting to see his growth through the robot novels to the finished product at the end of Foundation and Earth.

as far as Dr. Calvin goes, she seemed "married" to her work. with a few times where emotions were dangled before her eyes. "Liar" is an excellent example of showing she has something like emtions. there was another story I can't recall the name, where the robot was heard to call her "momma" can't remember the name of the story though. but it underlines her ultimate point in life. she's married to robots, and has a robot child handed to her.

Yes, and that tied in well with a scene from another story. I can't recall the name. She mentions that she was lost as a child at a science exhibtion. She could not find her parents, and went up to this robot to ask directions.

When her parents found her, she was in the arms of the robot asleep

[Abyssimal]

Originally Posted by MG1962

Yes, and that tied in well with a scene from another story. I can't recall the name. She mentions that she was lost as a child at a science exhibtion. She could not find her parents, and went up to this robot to ask directions.

When her parents found her, she was in the arms of the robot asleep

That reference was found in "Robbie", the first story in I Robot. And the child was named Alice who was looking for Robbie at the time. Calvin was nearby taking notes about the first talking robot in the exhibition.

[pnerd]

I absolutely love the character of Dr. Susan Calvin. And in the movie "I, Robot", they cast Bridget Moynahan as Dr. Calvin and that, in my opinion, was a totally wrong casting.

I personally think that Jody Foster can be a pretty good choice for the character of Dr. Calvin. what do you guys think?

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by MG1962

Yes, and that tied in well with a scene from another story. I can't recall the name. She mentions that she was lost as a child at a science exhibtion. She could not find her parents, and went up to this robot to ask directions.

When her parents found her, she was in the arms of the robot asleep

Actually it sounds as if you're conflating two different aspects of the same story. It wasn't Susan that was lost at the exhibition, but Gloria; the "robot" was in essence a massive computer, non-humaniform; she hadn't become lost, but was thinking (with perfectly childlike logic) that one robot would know how to find another, and was looking for her lost Robbie, etc. Susan Calvin was, however, at that time working on her doctorate and witnessed the event (at least, in the version as published in I, Robot; though I believe this was an insertion for the collection rather than something that existed in the original tale -- which was, incidentally, also originally published as "Strange Playfellow", a title which Asimov found "distasteful"....)

[AE35Unit]

Hmmm i seem to remember asimov mentioning once who he based her on but i can't remember.