Was Gondor jipped in the films?

[EricD]

I think yes. Reading Tolkien's original description of the battle, I remember the orcs of Mordor taking massive casualties, but at the same time systematically driving back the Gondorrim through the weight of numbers. Then, as Grond broke through the gate, the Witch-King rode into the city, had his confrontation with Gandalf, and the Rohirrim arrived. Then, as the Rohirrim flanked the Orcish hordes, the soldiers of Gondor charged out through the gate to offer their support.

Now, in the films, Gondor is just portrayed as possibly the weakest kingdom. Ever. It seems that for every one orc that dies, three Gondorrim go down with him. In fact, other than that one orc that got slammed into the ground with a spear when the gate was breached, and a few that got chokeslammed later, I don't think I ever saw a Gondorrim outright kill an orc in combat. And then the Rohirrim show up and utterly destroy Mordor's army. PJ seems to be in love with large cavalry charges, as it seems in all the LotR movies, cavalry charges just utterly own everything in sight. And the infantry stand no chance.

So, did Gondor get jipped of glory in the LotR films?

[kythe]

I had some problems with the last battle scene, though I never thought of it as portraying Gondor as weak. One of my favorite scenes in the book is the stand-off between the Witch-King and Gandalf, but the movie completely butchered it. The Rohirrim were portrayed a bit stronger than they should have been throughout the movies, but I thought the real problem with the ending of the Battle was in the Paths of the Dead. Very cool special effects, but the Dead seemed a little too all-powerful. They just came through and swept the place clean, like they were just there to save the day. I wish it hadn't seemed that cut-and-dry.

All of these issues combined may make Gondor seem weak in the movies. I don't think it was intentional, but other aspects of the story overshadowed the strength of Gondor a bit much.

That said, I love the movies. I think they were very well done and really captured the essence of Middle Earth. I'm just being nitpicky about the battle scene in ROTK.

[Majimaune]

Originally Posted by EricD

Then, as Grond broke

Grond is actually a balrog and I don't like the way that PJ did the name thing.

Originally Posted by EricD

Now, in the films, Gondor is just portrayed as possibly the weakest kingdom. Ever. It seems that for every one orc that dies, three Gondorrim go down with him. In fact, other than that one orc that got slammed into the ground with a spear when the gate was breached, and a few that got chokeslammed later, I don't think I ever saw a Gondorrim outright kill an orc in combat. And then the Rohirrim show up and utterly destroy Mordor's army. PJ seems to be in love with large cavalry charges, as it seems in all the LotR movies, cavalry charges just utterly own everything in sight. And the infantry stand no chance.

I agree with you there. PJ loves cavalry (then again so do I) and makes infantry seem really weak, no matter what. Cavalry does look more effective on the big screen and that is probably why it was done like that. But yes Gondor seems too weak and have too much cavalry of their own. They are only meant to have like ten horses in the whole of Minas Tirith.

[Kostmayer]

I took issue with the battle at Helms Deep in the Two Towers, when the riders turned up at the ned and charged the Orcs with the big spears. I know its a fantasy setting, but the orcs with the big pointy sticks were effectively pikemen, whose main purpose was to halt cavalry charges. Those riders should have been deaded easily.

I do think the battle of Helms Deep was brilliantly filmed, but I do have other issues with it.

[The Ace]

It has to be said, though, that cavalry DID dominate the medieval battlefield, indeed cavalry were a potent force in warfare up until the introduction of the machine-gun, so a light cavalry force outmanoevring a formation of pikemen is not only possible, but was probably very common.

[EricD]

Yes, but the armies of Gondor in the movies seem to be well-trained heavy infantry in the style of Roman legionaries, supported by longbowmen of English inspiration. And armies of that style was a potent force, even during the medieval period as battles such as Crecy, Poitiers and Agincourt proved. Heavy infantry, with archer support, could be superior to cavalry-centered armies.

Anyways, Gondor was jipped. PJ just loves his cavalry charges waaay to much.

Also, Majimaune, you are confusing Grond with Gothmog. The first Gothmog was the Chieftain of the Balrogs in the First Age during the War of the Jewels. It was he who struck down Feanor, greatest of the Noldor and my personal favourite character. The second Gothmog was an Orc, I think, who was second-in-command of the Mordor armies at the Pelennor Fields, second only to the Witch-King. Grond also had two versions, the first being a mace used by Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, and the second being a bigass battering ram

[Majimaune]

One thing I thought was good for Gondor was the trebusheys (sp?) (catapult thingies) that they had. Except that they were throwing parts of the building, that sucked.

[Culhwch]

Trebuchet, I think.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Maj

Except that they were throwing parts of the building, that sucked.

Bits of Minas Tirith were falling into disrepair anyway, because of the falling population, so you could say that the commander of artillery that authorised the use of bits of old building as ammo was also contributing to urban renewal.
I suspect that by this time, they were running out of official ammo anyway, and rather than stop firing, they were using anything that came to hand.

[Majimaune]

I guess so but how hard would it have been to move the bits of building. Some would have been pretty big.

[that old guy]

Originally Posted by pyan

Bits of Minas Tirith were falling into disrepair anyway, because of the falling population, so you could say that the commander of artillery that authorised the use of bits of old building as ammo was also contributing to urban renewal.

I was a bit irritated that they showed the walls getting hit and broken up. In the book it specifically says that the walls were impregnable and that they didn't even try to use catapults against them. (They shot over.)

[Majimaune]

Who are you? Oh your that old guy. (sorry crap joke)

I was a bit disappointed too. BOOKS SO MUCH BETTER!!

[HBP]

Who could explain the scene between Gandalf and The Witch-king fully cause I tried about three major book stores but they were no longer selling the book.

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by HBP

Who could explain the scene between Gandalf and The Witch-king fully cause I tried about three major book stores but they were no longer selling the book.

Were no longer selling, or were temporarily out of stock? Even the latter would be quite strange for three major bookstores at the same time, though possible. But no longer selling is, frankly, difficult to believe, considering that book remains the most well-known and one of the most widely-read books in the history of fantasy. They'd be cutting their sales, which doesn't make sense.

If they really are doing so, surely the local libraries would have copies of it. If even those are checked out, interlibrary loan could get you a copy within days.

As for "explaining" that scene -- I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you
looking for details of the confrontation, its significance, or something else?

[HBP]

Well maybe temporarily out of stock would explain it...........but i am just saying what the clerk said. Well as for the of most well-known book, that title is already taken by Harry Potter. Lord of the Rings maybe the best movie of our century/era, however, most persons don't know that the movie was a "mere" protroyal of a book.

Now as for "explaining" the scene -- I need some sort of imagery in my head and the only way to do that would be some sort of detailed explanation...............maybe i'm asking for too much but its worth a try. I think the movie pretty much highlighted that the witch-king wanted to kill gandalf ........."As for the wizard, i will break him". I'm assuming thats the significance.

Now you found time to write about an insignificant bookstore........could you plz.........pretty, pretty plz write out the entire confrontation between the two.

It will only take you about 15 minutes or maybe you could provide a site where i can read it online (pretty much impossible).